Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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The Foresight War Revisited: AFVs   Novel: The Foresight War

Started 16-Feb by autogun; 23945 views.

From: Wessels3


Diesels offer better torque and range but the extra development costs in the 30s, the lower power/displacement (except the 2 stroke you mentioned, did it have a fuel consumption penalty?)

The Germans evaluated their oponent's tanks, just like everybody else, and presented a report towards the end of the war, comparing the engines used in Allied tanks to their own. They found that the mean fuel consumption of petrol tank engines was 6-9.5 litres/ton vehicle weight/100 km travelled. The most fuel-efficient engine was found to be the Maybach HL230 and the worst consumption figures were found in the Chrysler multibank engine and the British Meteor. The best fuel consumption overall was seen in the four-stroke diesels, such as the KV engine used in the T34 and the US T-1020 diesel radial engine, and this comprised 4-6 litres of fuel/ton vehicle weight/100 km travelled, on average. The US GM 6046 engine (twin 6-71 two-stroke diesels) was in the same range as the HL230.

Spielberger W.J.: "Panther and its variants". Schiffer Publishing 1993. pp 268-269, 276.


From: hobbes154


Interesting, thanks. 


From: hobbes154


roguetechie said:

jump industry forward by 4+ decades in the first 2 years...

LOL if you think that's how technology transfer works... 


From: Red7272


hobbes154 said:

LOL if you think that's how technology transfer works... 

Look at the Javelin. First proposed in 1981 and entered service in 2002 or so. They have their advanced tank design sorted out by 1936 and it becomes operation in 1958.


From: roguetechie


You haven't seen my laptop...

Im naturally only being partially serious with anything regarding any of this as we're discussing a scenario involving a time traveler and a laptop full of future data here.

That said though if you include all the reference material on my actual archive drive you're looking at substantially more than 300 gigabytes of pdf's including  a truly shocking amount of the math and other technical data on a whole bunch of militarily and manufacturing technology relevant subjects as well as basic science math and engineering textbooks to flesh out and connect the dots between the more specialist literature.

Include the videos scientific and other white papers, the software on the machine my programming reference library the inordinate amounts of other fun and useful stuff AND the fact that our ancestors were incredibly smart motivated technically technologically and mathematically literate....

Yeah, I believe that if you could come up with a way to offload, diseminate, and prioritize the information that just got dropped in their laps it would be breathtaking awe inspiring and even a little horrifying how fast things would start moving.

You don't think that our ancestors could do amazing stuff when given a million plus pages of cheat sheets laying out the broad and sometimes extremely specific strokes of a massive chunk of the next 90 years of technological progress (including lots of information about what approaches work what don't and even a cheat list of people who were about to make major progress and discoveries) + the laptop's capabilities itself?

... You see what they did between 1895&1945 with none of those things right?

Also, borrowing from a conversation elsewhere about this, think about how useful that ONE LAPTOP and one trained user of MS excel alone could do for any of the countries involved for a minute!

The amount of math you can pack into a few cells alone could save weeks or months on a few hundred projects a day!

Granted, not everyone's laptops would be as just eye popping here's enough of the next 90 years of science to reverse engineer the rest at 100+ times the rate as you could have otherwise but when I think about the sheer talent and ability of the people they had to work with at the time I think I'd be disappointed by results almost an order of magnitude better than tony's best case personally.

These people took airplane's from cocktail napkins to first flight in months on a semi regular basis without a time traveler.


From: Krenske


"Rogue", I can certainly agree that there may be a lot of interesting information on some Laptops. I know that I had/have some serious stuff on my hard drives at different points. Just because we have some information though we do not have the ability to leap straight to mass production. At least two rounds of iteration from theoretical design would be needed before some technologies will be widely available. Just getting information from the Laptop and into relevant peoples heads will take some serious efforts. 

Certainly some information can stop people going down rabbit holes (especially in nuclear programs, and costly Dud programs) in development and correct previous issues.  This can save time and cost, sometimes nearly immediately (for example increasing the cost of electronic Valves by around 25% by removing silicon from drawing wire stock cuts failures by 90%,  also adding thermal and electronic shock measures could cut another 90% of failure). Some things though will require stages of improvement that will have to be gone through (quite possibly faster) no matter what. Other things could well be made for special use almost immediately (For example (and undoing some valve improvements above) semi conductors could be jumped to late 50's capabilities in 12-24 months. Ramping in productivity rapidly over 4 years.). 

As to the use of the laptop for actual computing, rather than carrying information, I would think the area of code breaking would be the best use. I think I had a Bletchley Bombe simulator on my laptop, as a curiosity piece, that ran roughly 500 times faster in 2001. But it would be better to jump to new build early electronic computers as fast as possible, as who knows when a Laptop decides to start having issues and having it as a sole source of failure would be bad.


From: QuintusO


You all are very insistent that the British couldn't possibly have welded steel into certain shapes and sizes, and used engines and gearboxes that already existed at the time.

Nobody's saying they should have to invent any new technologies (except Tony, who apparently wants everything to be "modular").


From: QuintusO


You can't even make the argument that the armor profiles are impossibru to roll, because we're talking about making a Leopard 1A3 type metal box o' spaced inch plates, here. Are they going straight to thermals? No, and nobody's asking them to.

This whole "industry" argument is a dud for you. Doesn't shake out.

In reply toRe: msg 209

From: QuintusO


I will also say, this insistence that nobody could learn anything about manufacturing, tank design, etc from a laptop really says volumes about what you guys have on your laptops.


From: Refleks


I have "all of wikipedia" on my phone, it's about 100 GB, just in case I'm ever on a deserted island with no internet, get into a debate with my volleyball and have to look up an answer grin Einstein I'm sure would be curious as to what the next 86 years in physics has to offer.

You also used to be able to get all of Khan Academy educational videos on a USB stick for use in 3rd world countries without internet access, though now they have to be downloaded manually. There are scripts where you can download all of a creators youtube videos in one batch operation.  You can cache topo maps for offline use, but unfortunately we're not yet at a point where you can cache the high resolution images of the entire globe on google earth, I suspect it would easily run into the multiple terabytes.

Certainly enough for a leg up, unless the German throwback is also a bit of a nerd and has such esoteric military data on his laptop.


  • Edited 22 April 2021 22:04  by  Refleks