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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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What would be the serial number of selected NGSW-R?   Small Arms <20mm

Started 3-Mar by poliorcetes; 700 views.
poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

3-Mar

AFAIK there is no serial number announced, but we can speculate. Since Garand and M1 Carbine, serial numbers are consecutive. I'm tempted to say that either is close to 8 (as it would come after XM-8), or it would be close to 20 (after M-18?), or close to 28 (after M27)

What do you think?

graylion

From: graylion

3-Mar

M11 - gotta have a Prime

In reply toRe: msg 2
taschoene

From: taschoene

3-Mar

The US military small arms numbering sequences right now are pretty incomprehensible, IMO.  I mean, the M27 looks like it might be in the sequence with marksmen/sniper rifles (M21, M22, M24) but then we have the M38 Squad DMR, the  M110 sniper system, and even the M2010 sniper rifle.   I think they just roll some dice every time a new gun comes into service.

The only solution is to start over.  Then the NGSW-R can be the M1 Battle Rifle and the NGSW-AR can be the M1 Automatic Rifle.  Because that would eliminate any possible confusion... smile

stancrist

From: stancrist

3-Mar

I don't know of any M18 rifle or carbine used by the US Army.  And the M27 is a USMC designation, so it's irrelevant.

I think the most likely model numbers for NGSW would follow the same approach taken with the new service pistol.

The SIG P320 was chosen for adoption in 2017, and the standard model is designated M17, the compact model M18.

If the winner is selected in 2021, I'd expect NGSW-R to be named M21 rifle, and NGSW-AR to be M22 automatic rifle.*

*Or possibly M22 light machine gun, if one of the belt-fed NGSW-AR candidates is selected for adoption.

taschoene

From: taschoene

3-Mar

stancrist said:

And the M27 is a USMC designation, so it's irrelevant.

There aren't supposed to be separate Marine and Army designations for small arms.  It is in theory one integrated list, but of course SOCOM (USN) Mark numbers and Air force GAU series numbers are muddying things up.

stancrist said:

If the winner is selected in 2021, I'd expect NGSW-R to be named the M21 rifle, and NGSW-AR to be M22 IAR (or LMG).

Except that there are in-service rifles designated Mk21 and Mk22 right now.  Technically designated marksmen or sniper rifles, but the potential for confusion between "M" and "Mk" is significant.  

stancrist

From: stancrist

3-Mar

taschoene said:

stancrist said: If the winner is selected in 2021, I'd expect NGSW-R to be named the M21 rifle, and NGSW-AR to be M22 AR (or LMG).

Except that there are in-service rifles designated Mk21 and Mk22 right now.  Technically designated marksmen or sniper rifles, but the potential for confusion between "M" and "Mk" is significant.

In theory, perhaps.  In reality, I doubt that it would be of any significance whatsoever.

Since the US Army managed to fight the biggest war in history using the M1 rifle and M1 carbine, I'm confident that today's troops would not be even a little confused about whether they were equipped with select-fire M22 automatic rifles or bolt-action Mk22 sniper rifles.

ETA:  Other US Army small arms with identical M-numbers were the M1A1 carbine and M1A1 submachine gun, and the M3 carbine and M3 submachine gun.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

3-Mar

The problem isn't the troops confused, it's the REMFs who send the wrong ammunition.

If they don't use the same cartridge, that is.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

3-Mar

But since plastic-fantastic M8 was going to be a rifle family more than a carabine, Why M8 and not M18?

Since AR-18 evaluated for adoption, maybe final figure should be after it?

stancrist

From: stancrist

3-Mar

Farmplinker said:

The problem isn't the troops confused, it's the REMFs who send the wrong ammunition. If they don't use the same cartridge, that is.

A unit with M1A1 carbines and M1A1 SMGs would not just say: "Send us some more M1A1 ammo."

The resupply request would be for ammo, Caliber .30 Carbine Ball M1, and Caliber .45 Ball M1911.

stancrist

From: stancrist

3-Mar

poliorcetes said:

But since plastic-fantastic M8 was going to be a rifle family more than a carabine, Why M8 and not M18?

M8 was to be a small arms family with the carbine being the basic (and most numerous) variant.

I think a better question is why M8 and not M5?  M1, M2, M3, and M4 carbines preceded the M8.

poliorcetes said:

Since AR-18 evaluated for adoption, maybe final figure should be after it?

Why?  The AR-18 was never adopted by the US Army, so it did not receive an official M-number.

And if the AR-18 had been adopted, it likely would've been called M17, after M14, M15, and M16.

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