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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Nexter has revealed its next generation tank gun concept: a 140mm gun firing tel   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 15-Apr by autogun; 803 views.
autogun

From: autogun

15-Apr

As reported by Overt Defense, French defence firm Nexter has revealed its next generation tank gun concept: a 140mm gun firing telescoped ammunition. 

The gun aims to counter armored threats that might exist in 2040 or beyond. But, the benefits of the new caliber are said to be numerous. The telescoped ammunition used looks to increase the length of the penetrator that can be packed inside while minimizing overall cartridge length. As armor-piercing tank ammunition nowadays is dominated by long-rod penetrators, maximizing the length of the penetrator is imperative. Per Nexter’s own words, the rods in ASCALON will be of “unparalleled length”. Oddly, Nexter only rates the energy of the gun at being 10 megajoules (MJ), with capacity to scale up to 13 MJ. Current 120mm tank guns firing modern ammunition land comfortably within the 9-12 MJ band, making the energetic improvement over current technology questionable.

Interestingly, the obturator/driving band on the concept ammunition is pushed to the very front. While this is common with most modern tank ammunition, telescoped ammunition has been known in the past to have issues with with rounds having to advance in the munition before engaging with the barrel. However the ASCALON concept demonstration round avoids this pitfall in its round design.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

15-Apr

Nexter really ought to give you one to experiment with. For Science, of course.wink

autogun

From: autogun

15-Apr

Farmplinker said:

Nexter really ought to give you one to experiment with. For Science, of course.

I suspect that my local rifle range would find it difficult to cope...

renatohm

From: renatohm

15-Apr

Will it be compatible with retrofitting programs?

Otherwise, the more conventional 140 mm of Rheinmetall is more promising.

Red7272

From: Red7272

15-Apr

renatohm said:

Will it be compatible with retrofitting programs? Otherwise, the more conventional 140 mm of Rheinmetall is more promising.

I doubt there will be much practical difference. The limiting factor for round length will be the length of the penetrator, which is already a factor with the US 120 mm rounds.  It's also going to need a new turret and ammo handling for everything but maybe the Leclerc. 140 is also pretty small for a KE dependent gun.

autogun

From: autogun

16-Apr

renatohm said:

Otherwise, the more conventional 140 mm of Rheinmetall is more promising.

What they are promoting at the moment is 130mm - the 140mm projects happened many years ago.

renatohm

From: renatohm

16-Apr

Sorry, I misspelled, I wanted to write 130.

130 from Rheinmetall seems to be quite a bit more powerful, plus the fact that it is more amenable to retrofits.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

16-Apr

How can a multi-decade new tank program be justified in a NLOS / BLOS world under a pure military perspective? I mean, there is no actual threat that justifies such huge effort.

Some European countries are utterly kidnapped by big defense companies that resist successfully the end of the Cold War

renatohm

From: renatohm

16-Apr

I have argued that the MBT gun, especially for urban combat, should be 105 mm, plus an assortment of drones, artillery and ATGM (on the tank itself or on UGV).

The reality is that there's no free lunches, so whatever options are chosen, there are compromises.

  • Edited 16 April 2021 20:37  by  renatohm
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

17-Apr

The tank isn't nearly as dead as some are saying it is.

The pieces are slowly coming together to defend them sufficiently for them to still occupy the role we're used to.

In many ways the utter freak out you're seeing in the west is just people realizing that we haven't put nearly the focus we should have on shorad and comms because we didn't have to.

These problems aren't insurmountable though, and many of them are being quietly rectified.

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