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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Perun X16   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14-May by Mr. T (MrT4); 6980 views.
tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

26-Jun

Adding adjustable gas block probably will do in adverse condition. Although im curious about the stress put on the trunnion seeing as it hosts the tappet piston as well. Also from the slow motion i noticed the bolt carrier was trying to jump out of the rail in the end of its travel not sure if it was because the dust cover is removed.

But in my opinion for a non-military rifle it's a great concept and promises a lot of advantages like improved accuracy and optional removable barrel mentioned in the video. Mark Serbu also designed a rifle with similar concept called diabolus.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

26-Jun

Diabolus i think is an aluminum recreation of Ar18 

The DI AK is/was a mule for Perun X16 ,i think the driver was the input from competitive shooters like , DI guns outclass others in dynamic shooting where the follow-up shots are faster than anything with the piston. 

Although they are now working on making a cheap(sub 1000$) mass-produced version of Perun (one of the designers that they contract to also works for me on my guns) i think they are not looking at the Mil/Le market just jet although that will change once gun is refined.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

27-Jun

So Diabolos is actually an AR18 alike running an ACR "Juarez" style gas system, not a straight up short stroke. It uses a gas tube to transfer gas to the piston which is just forward of the front trunnion.

The Juarez gas system is pretty interesting though and has plenty of merits with which to compensate for the gun otherwise being pretty uninspired.

The Tink "DI" AK isn't so much DI as basically a Holloway hac 7 "ak". The Holloway system could be considered a direct predecessor to the Juarez ACR system.

In both cases they're kinda neat and all but they should be recognized as what they are, which is basically just hk416 level novelties.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

28-Jun

With well over 100years of auto-loading actions in development so many things have been tried and developed that , longer development auto-loading actions is going on less likely you get a new system, more likely you are just getting into small branches of main tired and tested developments ,unless there is some drastic change in ammo I don't expect any radical concepts of Auto-loading action like HK11 or Styer ACR making it. 

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

28-Jun

There's still an awful lot of progress that could be made with clean sheet designs though.

Especially since manufacturing technology and material science has changed a lot since the venerable designs we keep reheating and mixing and matching were originally conceived.

While I have no doubt that the guns we're discussing are fun and interesting guns in their own right, I think it's important that people understand that we could do substantially better in the current year if people would sit down and design from a clean sheet.

I've seen what could conceivably be done if we did this and it's well worth the effort.

It's possible to do sub 5 pound guns that dissipate heat and recoil to levels which we know would provide a materially significant advantage to whoever actually goes and does it first.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

28-Jun

We know the UBERRIFLE is possible, but other than the US, Japan, and probably China, who could afford to deploy it?

autogun

From: autogun

29-Jun

Farmplinker said:

We know the UBERRIFLE is possible, but other than the US, Japan, and probably China, who could afford to deploy it?

Possibly the UK as we only have around 20,000 soldiers in the infantry (and not all of them will be riflemen).

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

29-Jun

It is not about who might afford it , but whether there is political will for it. 

Would add Korea to the top of the list next to China.

Mustrakrakis

From: Mustrakrakis

29-Jun

Farmplinker said:

We know the UBERRIFLE is possible, but other than the US, Japan, and probably China, who could afford to deploy it?

More importantly, which country would be foolish enough to think that spending a lot of money on a rifle would make any measurable difference on the outcome of a war?  The service rifle is, unfortunately, one of those pieces of equipment where "good enough" is truly good enough.  (And "good enough" isn't even necessarily very good.)

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

1-Jul

Everyone.

That's the part that's frustrating!

Yes you'd be pushing boundaries that absolutely require you to stop using 100 year old ordnance steels and 60 year old aluminum alloys but like other industries use up to date and appropriate materials without breaking the bank.

In any kind of mass production you could pretty easily get complete guns down to a bit more than the current DOD contract cost for m4a1's and substantially less than the $3000 the Marines are paying for 416's.

The biggest thing would just be getting past the ripping the bandaid of sunk costs like existing stocks of ammo and parts off stage.

Once you're past that, it's shockingly affordable, especially since stepping away from brass for cartridge cases, the extent to which you can automate production, the reduced floor space for production, and potentially the lower rejection rates etc would save you money pretty quick.

On the logistics side, after you rip the band-aid off, there's a whole bunch of savings you could easily reap in a variety of ways too many to list.

The big issue is that the sunk cost fallacy, and a real and very justified fear of DOD etc turning it into a shit show combined with the industry having been hollowed out to a point where people justifiably fear whether better can actually be achieved keep anyone from even trying.

On the positive side of the equation, our hollowed out industrial capability uninspired procurement and etc leave room for massive improvements at pretty minimal amounts of effort and cash outlay once people are finally tired enough of the current situation.

At this point, as frustrated as I am with the situation, i have come to the conclusion that it's not gonna happen until it happens.

And it'll happen because a dark horse or a threat nation basically forces it to happen because the existential threat outweighs the institutional inertia and people's resignation to mediocrity.

I suspect it'll happen blindingly fast and cost us a whole bunch more than it needs to because we will probably be either literally or figuratively under the gun.

As for myself and several people I know we kinda have some pretty in-depth theories about why the current situation persists that seem pretty solid.

The final thing I'll say is that at some point it definitely will happen because In a lot of ways the barriers to entry for something revolutionary to take us collectively by surprise are almost shockingly low and getting lower every day.

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