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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Unusual feeding methods   General Military Discussion

Started 27-Dec by smg762; 3839 views.
smg762

From: smg762

27-Dec

Lately I've been interested in a cartridge that's total squared or triangle shaped, in terms of stacking more efficient in a magazinre.

Obviously the dardick revolver managed to feed these rounds, could it be done with a rifle and intermediate rounds? From the pics of the dardick feed system, it looks like only telescoped ammo would work.

And what about a squared cartridge like the lockless  rounds which single stacks in the mag? Much more size efficient

Any thoughts on this idea to greatly lighten magazines?

In reply toRe: msg 1
RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

27-Dec

Likely to bite you in the backside by making the weapon heavier, since squares and triangles are poor cross-sections for holding internal pressure

smg762

From: smg762

27-Dec

You mean they can't handle high pressures? 

In reply toRe: msg 3
EmericD

From: EmericD

27-Dec

smg762 said:

You mean they can't handle high pressures? 

They can, but need to use a thicker case, so they are heavier.

And it's difficult to drill a square or triangle chamber in a barrel.

smg762

From: smg762

27-Dec

How did the .50 trounds feed....did the gun work like the dardick revolver?

My idea was for a single stack squared cartridge....only 6mm tall to allow many rounds....do you think it's viable

In reply toRe: msg 3
RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

27-Dec

For a given wall thickness, a cylindrical pressure vessel (like a firearm chamber) will hold higher pressure without failing.

If you want to have a square cross-section pressure vessel support the same pressure as a cylindrical one, the square one will be heavier.

That said, you might find a situation where heat capacity or depth of material for locking lugs drives the chamber wall thickness rather than pressure capacity.

Gas sealing the corners would still be a challenge though.

In reply toRe: msg 5
EmericD

From: EmericD

28-Dec

smg762 said:

My idea was for a single stack squared cartridge....only 6mm tall to allow many rounds....do you think it's viable

A single stack magazine with 6 x 6 mm square round will probably not hold 30 rds without being taller than a current 30 rds double-stack 5.56 mm, and a 6 x 6 mm square round will not hold as much powder (=> muzzle energy) as a current 5.56 mm round without being very long, making the magazine probably impractical.

You probably should do it the other way. First, make fake mags out of wooden block (with different length, width...) and try to store as many as possible on a tactical carrier. After finding the good shape for your mag (that is easy to store and manipulate), then design the round that will fit inside, and a double stack / double feed magazine with cylindrical ammo is probably as good as you can get from a practical standpoint (they are easier to load than single stack magazines).

smg762

From: smg762

28-Dec

I should clarify the round was 6x18mm....it's wide like a lockless round. 

What's your opinion on the dardick revolver

In reply toRe: msg 8
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

28-Dec

The problem is round cartridges have a very unfair number of advantages, including several specifically in the realm of cartridge feed.

Cartridge feed dynamics are actually a pretty significant part of building and fielding a reliable weapon.

Hell,even with all the advantages of cylindrical cases with a tapered front end like current rounds have we still have pretty significant issues with making mags with capacities >30 rounds that can feed reliably in a gun at fairly common cyclic rates on the higher end of normal!

If you really start looking into these alternative cartridges and dig far enough you inevitably find that feeding is a significant and very nontrivial issue the original developers fought. It often ended their initial pursuit of these alternative cartridge architectures

smg762

From: smg762

28-Dec

So going back to durability, would the old 50bmg tround and lockless have needed very thick case walls? How did stoners guns feed these rounds?

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