gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24-Feb by gatnerd; 138413 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Feb

Well, shits poppin off in Ukraine.

Unprovoked Russian Aggression? A reasonable response to relentless NATO encroachment? This is not the place for that political discussion. 

However, given that we will likely be seeing quite a bit of Military Guns and Ammunition expended in the next few days, I would like us to try and aggregate whatever info we can on how these weapons are being employed by either side. 

I'll start.

Heres what looks to be Helicopters coming under fire from some type of MANPAD system. Hellicopters deploy flares - appears to be successful at countering.

Russian War In Ukraine - Russian MI-8 Helicopter Dodges Ukrainian Anti-Air Missile Near Kyiv

More Footage of the Russian declared war on Ukraine shows a group of low flying Russian MI-8 transport helicopters deploying flares after one of them nearly ...

https://twitter.com/KyleJGlen/status/1496804693976231936

Same source now says one helicopter downed, possibly somewhere else:

If anyone comes across similar examples of weapon employment and tactics, please share. 

  • Edited 24 February 2022 7:20  by  gatnerd
smg762

From: smg762

24-Feb

All the rifles I've seen have had no optic....is this normal? They looked like ak74s.

And I know we don't want. political discussion but what did Russia mean when they said the strike was 'in self defence for our nation '?

Lastly, is Ukraine planning to fight back?

What are the chances of another nation leaping to Ukraine's defence?

  • Edited 24 February 2022 12:50  by  smg762
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

24-Feb

smg762 said:

All the rifles I've seen have had no optic....is this normal?

Yes, most nations around the world can not afford to equip all small arms with optics. Usually these are only given to elite units first. Followed by frontline infantry. Most reserve and security forces will receive them last.

smg762 said:

And I know we don't want. political discussion but what did Russia mean when they said the strike was 'in self defence for our nation '?

Its called maskirovka.

smg762 said:

Lastly, is Ukraine planning to fight back?

They are fighting back.

smg762 said:

What are the chances of another nation leaping to Ukraine's defence?

Zero.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

24-Feb

All I know is, we're going to have to wait longer for Max's book.cry

stancrist

From: stancrist

24-Feb

FWIW:

Ukraine & Russia War: The Average Soldier's Perspective

What is your average Ukrainian and Russian Infantryman thinking? What are the different perspectives on these two different sides of this war. Follow Chris C...

In reply toRe: msg 5
autogun

From: autogun

24-Feb

The Fort-221 claimed to be used by Ukrainian special forces looks interesting, if true:

"An Israeli IMI TAR-21 built under license by RPC Fort in Vinnytsia and design to chamber the 5.45×39mm round instead of the standard 5.56×45mm NATO round."

Comments?

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

25-Feb

For some officially unknown reason IWI withdrew all its manufacturing licenses from FORT about a year ago

Unofficially (rumors) it was linked to QC issues, but also may have something with arming neo-nazi units with Fort weapons

As for 'defense', official position is that Donbass area has a significant number of Russian citizens (and people who consider themselves Russians rather than Ukrainians), and they were subjects of continuous shelling and attacks from Ukraine for 8 years

Another issue that is often overlooked is that the western Ukraine has a significant number of people with Hungarian passports, and, historically, these lands were Hungary before the WW2

Poland also has claims (not officially, of cause) for certain parts of Ukraine, which were annexed during the communist regime

So, in this case, the much hailed de-communisation could be a tricky business

In reply toRe: msg 7
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

25-Feb

Since the war in the Ukraine is a real all out war faught with combined arms small arms like rifles don't really play a significant role.

Its all about heavy weapons. AFV, tanks and artillery.

I also doubt we will get any substancial information until the fighting ends.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

25-Feb

Considering Russian forces are still very much avoiding collateral damage conducting sort of Western style invasion, small arms are definitely more in play than they would be if this was not the case , VDV holding that Airport in Kiev suburbs must have seen the most intense small arms action so far.

One thing is a bit baffling that the net is not flooded with Javelin launches,not a single one so far.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

25-Feb

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Considering Russian forces are still very much avoiding collateral damage

If by that you mean they have not shelled Kiev... yet.
We don't know anything that is going on in the Ukraine. Kiev currently is the only place where some information that is at least somewhat realiable comes from. For the simple fact that this is the place where some Western journalists are.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

VDV holding that Airport in Kiev suburbs must have seen the most intense small arms action so far.

Do you have any reliable information on that or are you simply speculating?
My current level of information is: there are russian paratroopers at the airport. What is going on there and what equipment the paratroopers have, what the Ukrainias are using to fight them is completly in the dark.
The VDV has mechanised units and the ability to deploy them by fixed or rotary wing aircraft. So there could be AFV involved.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

One thing is a bit baffling that the net is not flooded with Javelin launches,not a single one so far.

That is not baffeling at all.
What is going on in Ukraine has nothing to do with the COIN and LIC we mostly witnessed in the last two decades. We talk HIC between two industrialised nations. Very combined arms centric. That means long egangement distances and lots of heavy weapons. The people caught in the fighting simply don't have the time to take pictures or make videos. Even if they do chances are they go squish befor they can upload. Which would require an internet connection in the first place. Keep in mind the Russians are winning and pushing the Ukrainians back. They have controll of the battlefield. It is very unlikley that the Russian military will make footage of them taking losses available.

Furthermore the Javelins have only been delivered recently. It is very likely that they have not been distributed and the troops not been trained yet.

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