What I am wondering about a bit is the 'invisible' systems that don't get mentioned.

• Archer
• CV9040
• Black Mamba

Now the two Swedish systems: Sweden reportedly has asked that they not be shown in videos. But Ukraine clearly is impressed enough that they came to an agreement to manufacture them. As for Black Mamba, my feeling is that a similar request may well be in place and that we will only find out after the war how well it did. But in any case, has anybody heard anything?

Archer has not been seen in Ukraine

CV9040 is frequently mentioned and is the ready off the shelf solution ,in Europe  Lynx is only starting with Hungary ,Ascod no one seems to want and Brits made a death vibrator by developing on it , Puma is obviously not jet ready and probably expensive as fuck. So if you can chose an IFV that is ready to be manufactured today at moderate cost CV90 is only real choice. Hardly invisible with permanent exponate in Moscow

Black Mamba?

I do not think the CV9040 is invisible

which country do you work for

if you tried to design a IFV which must defeat other IFVs, but cannot use APDS/APFSDS, how large would the caliber have to be, assuming full-bore AP rounds with only 3000fps or so

smg762 said:

if you tried to design a IFV which must defeat other IFVs, but cannot use APDS/APFSDS, how large would the caliber have to be, assuming full-bore AP rounds with only 3000fps or so

I dunno, a pod of APKWS with HEAT warheads should do, or a rack of ATGMs. 

You didn't say we needed to use the gun to kill AFVs. 

Jeff (Jefffar) said:

You didn't say we needed to use the gun to kill AFVs.

Use of a gun is implicit:

"APDS/APFSDS"

"how large would the caliber have to be"

"full-bore AP rounds"

Ukrainians disassembling some 155mm DPICM to use the submunitions for drones. 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukrainians-are-cutting-open-u-s-cluster-shells-to-make-drone-munitions

Twitter thread shows whole process, including dropping the munitions on a testing range and showing the mix of frag effect and HEDP penetration.

https://twitter.com/osmnactej/status/1694455831566172455

"The footage from Ukraine showing the process of converting the M42/M46s into bomblets that drones can drop then shows personnel manually arming the fuzes on the submunitions by twisting a tassel-like piece of cloth on top of each one. When employed in the typical manner, this component would both arm the submunition and help stabilize it. When armed, the fuze just relies on momentum to send a firing pin into a detonator, which sets off the main charge."

...

Some have debated whether it's worth sacrificing DPICM shells for drone use. 

However given the effectiveness we've seen from drone drops, and that a single 155mm shell holds 88 submunitions, it seems worth it to me to do some experimenting with. 

10x DPICM shells would provide 880 submunitions, enough to arm 440 drones with 2x rounds. 

gatnerd said:

Some have debated whether it's worth sacrificing DPICM shells for drone use.  However given the effectiveness we've seen from drone drops, and that a single 155mm shell holds 88 submunitions, it seems worth it to me to do some experimenting with.

After the multitude of such "experimenting" we've seen in this war, I have come to the conclusion that Ukrainians just really, really love to tinker...  

Depends on the IFV you're up against. A lot can be penetrated, especially on side/rear shots, with a Bushmaster 25mm. If it's an MBT body with RWS (Russian T-15, if ever deployed), going to have to use ATGMs.