gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 160347 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Apr

Very cool Anti Tank mine being sent by Germany to Ukraine:

The PARM 2 incorporates an infra-red sensor, the SAPIR, which acts to accurately fire the rocket to ranges up to 100 meters. The warhead of the PARM 2 has been upgraded, with an armour penetration of 750 millimeters and a capability against reactive armour. It can be programmed to be active from between hours and 30 days.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

26-Apr

One wonders how much of the supplied heavy weapons can actually be used in combat, heavy armor particularly anything tracked needs a bunch of maintenance to keep running and some of the supplied gear has not moved at all in a decade or so . On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be much in terms of logistics or recovery vehicles in the supplies. I reckon much of the gear will end up abandoned before they actually see any combat, same happened to Russian gear, all those abandoned vehicles did not end up abandoned without cause, many probably broke down.

I have seen 'our' tank clones of T72 that are now being donated and many of which haven't moved for the past 15 years, break down a lot when they were still fairly new  .a column would march 70km  on paved road and 10%+ broke down along the way, last time we sent the few that are operational to a Tank competition in Germany they couldn't fire any main gun ammo , it was not deemed safe as it was too old. Not to mention these tanks do not have a single T72 part on them and i doubt there is lot of compatibility in terms of parts.

Interestingly our upgraded T55S with 105mm cannon are not being considered, and they are probably the best T55 upgrade out there and likely better than any Leo1 that can be suplied from German stocks , more up to date in all aspects . They are also relatively fresh, upgraded in 1999 while the M-84 tanks being supplied were never modernized since they were made in late 80's .

graylion

From: graylion

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be much in terms of logistics or recovery vehicles in the supplies. I reckon much of the gear will end up abandoned before they actually see any combat, same happened to Russian gear, all those abandoned vehicles did not end up abandoned without cause, many probably broke down.

I gather that Germany is sending 100 low-loaders for tanks to resolve some of those issues. @Schnuersi, do you know more?

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Apr

gatnerd said:

Very cool Anti Tank mine...

Mine???  Looks like a rocket to me.

taschoene

From: taschoene

26-Apr

It's an off-route mine -- basically a rocket with a HEAT warhead and a sensor system.  So, you emplace it along a road or trail, lay a sensor cable across the route, and it fires when a vehicle drives across the cable.  (There are also versions that use an IR sensor, so you don't need a cable).    It can also be command-fired by an operator observing the target location.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

26-Apr

Looks like some of them were already found by locals in Ukraine after one of them killed a farmer on tractor

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

26-Apr

The German PARM means Panzerabwehr Richtmine: anit-tank directional mine. This name comes from very early designs actually firing an explosive formed projectile at the target. The design was changed to a HEAT warhead being fired at the target, but due to the unchanged employment, the name was kept.       

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

graylion said:

I gather that Germany is sending 100 low-loaders for tanks to resolve some of those issues. @Schnuersi, do you know more?

Germany is supplying logistics vehicles to Ukraine for some time allready.
No specifics though.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Looks like some of them were already found by locals in Ukraine after one of them killed a farmer on tractor

Very unlikely.
The one one the picture has not been deployed. Its new and unused.
The white cap in the mittle above the broad connector is a safety cap. Its has to be removed to ready the mine, connect it to the sensory circuit and arm it. If its still there the mine has not been armed.

Also the PARM is triggered by a wire sensor that is put over a road or track. Unless the farmer moved on a track secured by the Ukrainian military, on Ukrainian territory it seems very unlikely that a farmer in a tractor gets struck by one.
Unless of course the framer and his tractor where send down this track by Russian troops to "find" mines.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

26-Apr

The big new today is that Germany will now supply Gepard SPAA to Ukraine.

Which means now the discussion about direct delivery of heavy weapons has come to an end: Germany is delivering and will train Ukrainian soldiers.

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