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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 181941 views.
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

2/5/22

We do not have any numbers aside from what is produced for propaganda purposes

Casualty numbers are fog of war right now , but aside from the initial total boondoggle when they marched right in and i guess expected to hold a parade in Kyiv, the casualties have likely been far worse on the Ukrainian side , artillery and airpower advantages are just to great. What you are seeing is an intense propaganda war that is not waged just by Ukraine and Russia but by most of the western media.

British or any other intelligence assessment published must always be taken with a bucket load of salt particularly Brits that form the core of propaganda force in this war.

17thfabn

From: 17thfabn

2/5/22

What is sustainable is in the view of Putin / Russia.

I am always amazed at the casualty figures of the USSR and Germany in World War II. And yet they kept on fighting. At least Germany did until 1945.

Russia / Putin have to decide how much they are willing to sacrifice for the Ukrainianan adventure.

Putin is probably willing to sacrfice more Russian lives, blood and treasure than we think is logical.

He may strip forces from other areas that military analyst say is unwise to deploy to Ukraine Drafties that were said to be exempt from service in Ukraine may be "volenteered" to go. He could go old school and strip Naval and Air units of personnel. They would be useful as support logistical personnel. 

To our eyes Putin's moves may seem illogical. It doesn't matter what our view is. The question is how much is Putin willing to sacrifice?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

2/5/22

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

casualties have likely been far worse on the Ukrainian side , artillery and airpower advantages are just to great

I'm sure UA's military loses have been much higher then reported.

However, I could absolutely see RU's being higher/UAs being lower.

The reason being that UA has the 'luxury' of a dispersed defense, often employing hit and run tactics, where RU's forces are frequently concentrated. The RU forces are also vehicle bound, increasing casualties when struck.

IE in the most basic level, ATGM vs Tank. ATGM guy kills a T72 tank, 3 men are killed. A T72 kills a ATGM gunner, 1 man is killed. 

The long convoys of support vehicles that have been attacked show similar factors. Small band of a dozen UA Comandos attack a convoy with RPGs and ATGMs, possibly backed by drone spotted artillery. A dozen plus vehicles are destroyed with many more men killed, while only a dozen UA men were put at risk. 

....

The new fighting for Donbass though is likely to result in much higher casualties for the UA side, as now its a 'battle front' trying to either hold or seize territory with concnetrated forces on both sides, as opposed to the previous hit and run.

stancrist

From: stancrist

2/5/22

17thfabn said:

To our eyes Putin's moves may seem illogical. It doesn't matter what our view is. The question is how much is Putin willing to sacrifice?

There is also the question of how much death and destruction is Ukraine willing to accept?

As for how much logic there is in Putin's actions, the first five minutes of this is interesting.

Retired general makes prediction about Putin's plan in Ukraine

Retired Maj. General James "Spider" Marks outlines Russian President Vladimir Putin's plan to partition Ukraine and predicts that Ukrainian forces will not b...

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

2/5/22

Fighting for Donbas is not new has been going on all along and was always artillery heavy affair, no 

Yes like said in the initial phases Russia likely suffered more In the northern front, although you can't discount airpower effects that kept Ukrainians at bay around Hostomel for weeks, and mass casualty hits on Ukrainian barracks 

ATGM or tank kills typically kill 1 possibly 2 men only rarely when the tank immediately brews up you see all 3 KIA . Russians also ride their APCs so losses are not scratch one vehicle and complement, not to mention damaged armor get left behind, broken down armor get left behind. Burned wreck doesn't = dead crew.  

Considering that most of the fighting for past weeks has been going on much more consolidated fronts in Donbas , where Russians do not have that exposed columns, same goes for helicopters and planes that do not need to operate deep behind enemy lines, Ukraine has the greatest MANPAD density imaginable and we are not seeing many hits since they changed to the south and Russians do not need to do CAS deep behind enemy lines ,you can imagine at present artillery is to one doing most of the killing. While helicopter effectiveness is considerably hampered due to having to dodge all the MANPADs 

Like i said unless you really search for it you are getting very one-sided info

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

2/5/22

More craft produced armor, already with one confirmed save. Combines steel armor plate with conveyor belt rubber as a backer in lieu of Kevlar.

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

2/5/22

The obvious fact is in my view is that the Russian offensive in the south is not proceeding as intended. According to what is reported in Germany, Russia is employing 65 percent of its entire military force in Ukraine and is far from reaching any sensible objective. After the "decapitating" northern offensive against Kiev failed in a way that makes the French army of 1940 look good, results in the south so far also lack substance. Casualties on both sides are heavy, no doubt. But from a Russian military perspective, the result is a disaster, not unlike the attack on Finland in 1940.     

As far as Putin is concerned, we must consider him a madman. Otherwise he would not have started this aggresion on a peaceful neighbour in the first place. He follows his emotions, not logic assessments of the situation. Lavrovs statement of today that Hitler was a jew, clearly shows the desperation among those around Putin. Even the cold calculating, most cynical Lavrov, used to routinely telling most blatant lies af if he believed them, sees himself forced to search short time relief in such utter nonsense.         

  • Edited 02 May 2022 19:27  by  JPeelen
Murpat

From: Murpat

3/5/22

Casualties. The fog of war - or perhaps the first casualty of war is truth.

However, though the Ukrainian casualties may well be very high - it is the morale of your fighting force that is vital. The Ukrainians are defending home and family ........ literally. Morale remains high for that reason.

The young Russians are not - they are invading and face all the other aspects that have been outlined on this thread - poor logistics - so food and fuel and no doubt many of the other things vital to the efficiency of an army. Morale will be more difficult to maintain - then add in heavy casualties and unexpected resistance.

stancrist

From: stancrist

3/5/22

San Diego company's new attack drone heading to Ukraine

The U.S. is sending Ukraine more than 100 secretive new attack drones made by a San Diego company.

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