gatnerd

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Next Gen Stinger / MANPAD    General Military Discussion

Started 9-Apr by gatnerd; 5859 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

9-Apr

Since Ukraine has popped off, the US is burning though its stocks of Stingers, and the Stinger was already a fairly dated platform as the US had not been much interested in SHORAD work.

Ukraine, Taiwan, and the global proliferation of drones and UAS has prompted a sudden surge in interest. These will go from being 'stocking stuffer' low priority munitions to fairly high priority ones.

Currently two possibilities are being pursued.

Option 1: Stinger paired with the lightweight thermal imaging LCLU used in the Javelin. Combined with the newest Stinger Proximity Fuse, this will allow the Stinger to identify and destroy small drones at much further range due to the very fine thermal optics of the Javelin CLU. Reportedly it can ID small drones at 5km. 

The LCLU will also have 'network centric sensor to shooter' ability, in that other units and radar will be able to notify MANPAD operators of air threats in their area, and the speed and direction they are approaching. 

https://www.overtdefense.com/2021/03/19/interview-details-about-raytheons-stinger-javelin-lwclu-integration/

Option 2: Stinger replacement. The US is debating whether Stinger production should resume, or whether a new missile of very similar size - but with higher performance  should be produced. 

Advances in the past decade in miniaturized multi-mode seeker systemswarhead technology, and high-grain rocket propellant could potentially combine to form a missile that has a significantly expanded engagement envelope against a broader set of targets than existing Stingers, but in a package with exactly the same dimensions. Improved networking capabilities could be used to link a future Stinger derivative, as well as any new clean-sheet missile design, or its launcher to a variety of offboard sensors to help with target acquisition, cueing, and engagement. A design with a multi-mode seeker combined with a data link, even an optional one, capable of feeding in additional targeting information could not only be more accurate and flexible, but also more resistant to enemy countermeasures.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/45131/the-fim-92-stinger-sam-may-finally-get-a-replacement

An RFI has been placed for the next gen stinger; whether it will be a totally new missile, or an upgraded stinger paired with the LCLU remains to be seen:

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/04/07/us-army-initiates-plan-to-replace-stingers-with-next-gen-interceptor/

In reply toRe: msg 1
Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)

9-Apr

Interesting idea evolving from incoroprating elements of the Javelin CLU - a common CLU for man-portable ATGM and SAMs.

Though, interesting though, would a proximity mode on a Javelin be enough to give it the ability to engage small, mobile drones?  I beleive it's fast enough to engage helicopters already.  It won't be a jet killer, but suddenly every US Army Squad is lugging arounda guided Anti-Drone/Anti Helicopter weapon. 


Alternatively, is Pike fast and accurate enough for anti-drone work?  Every 40mm GL would become an anti-drone plaform if it is.  Raytheon Pike Miniaturized Missile | SOFREP

JesseH1234

From: JesseH1234

9-Apr

Or we could just buy Starstreaks. I would imagine they require more training per crew to work them well, but damn it would be scary to be flying low with those things around, at least in terms of medium to full size targets.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

9-Apr

Starstreak is a bit heavier than ideal but there's nothing saying you couldn't do a Starz and stripez streak and split the difference.

In reply toRe: msg 3
Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)

9-Apr

I worry about Starstreak agaisnt drones for 2 reasons.

1) It's hit to kill, which is really hard agaisnt a small, agile drone.  A proximity fuze is realy handy.

2) The darts actually fly a patter around the aimpoint, a small drone may actually have the darts pass around it instead of impacting. 

But it's a beaut against ground attack aircraft and helicopters, exploding inside the target.  Even if your aircraft has armour agaisnt fragments, it won't help.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10-Apr

Jeff (Jefffar) said:

Though, interesting though, would a proximity mode on a Javelin be enough to give it the ability to engage small, mobile drones?  I beleive it's fast enough to engage helicopters already.  It won't be a jet killer, but suddenly every US Army Squad is lugging arounda guided Anti-Drone/Anti Helicopter weapon. 

I like that idea a lot. Sort of 'Universal Infantry Rocket' that can be both ATGM/MANPAD. 

What would be really ideal is if they could create such a system in the compact and light form factor of the Spike-SR, where rather then a special CLU the missiles own thermal seeker is the CLU, and the soldier aims with just a little iphone type screen on the side of the rocket tube that shows what the missile sees. 

However that might make it insufficiently powerful to spot small drones. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10-Apr

The Martlet is a super cool 'swiss army missile' that I hope the US looks into adopting. Really versatile and lightweight. 

Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)

10-Apr

Not going to lie, I'm kinda proud of my self for suggesting a proximity fused version of Starstreak would be a good MANPADS less than 24 hours before someone actually tries it out for the first time.

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