stancrist said:

That is 100% bullshit. Russia has been invading its neighbors since at least the 16th Century, long before the US even existed.

Shall we look at the British empire then, as the predecessor of the US, and compare fates of conquered populations?

If you want to look back that far, say, how well were/are native Americans under the British/ US rule compared to, say, Tatars or Chukcha or Karelian people under the Russian empire?

Or maybe we shall look a bit closer and compare a list of countries attacked and/or invaded by either country over last 30 years?

And yes, I know you'll say again that it's irrelevant, but so you know not everyone shares your opinion on that.

mpopenker said:

Shall we look at the British empire then, as the predecessor of the US, and compare fates of conquered populations?

No.  You are still deflecting.  The "fates of conquered populations" has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I addressed.

As you have done a number of times before, you falsely claim US actions are the precedents for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Russia was invading its neighbors two centuries before the US had even been founded as a nation.

The only precedent for the invasion of Ukraine is Russia's own lengthy history of aggression.

Max, it is pointless when you basically argue that murder is legal because it happens all the time.

Russia started a war of aggression in Europe. The only comparison that reflects the severity of the violation is that with Nazi Germany in 1939. Those events showed us Europeans that any sign of appeasement towards an aggressor is the biggest mistake of all.      

JPeelen said:

Max, it is pointless when you basically argue that murder is legal because it happens all the time.

No, my argument is if the murder is illegal then it should be punished to the full extent of the law every time.

When some big-time mass murderers routinely get away with the impunity, these occurrences create false ideas and precedents for others to follow, in hopes that they can avoid the punishment too. Exactly that, nothing less, nothing more.

mpopenker said:

my argument is if the murder is illegal then it should be punished to the full extent of the law every time.

When some big-time mass murderers routinely get away with the impunity, these occurrences create false ideas and precedents for others to follow...

The trouble is, you are making a false and dishonest argument in claiming that Russia is following a precedent set by the US invasions of Iraq, etc.

That the US has unjustly invaded countries is not the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine, nor is it a precedent for the aggression against Ukraine.

Russia invaded Ukraine because Russia has always been an aggressor nation, and the precedent Russia is following is its own murderous history.

stancrist said:

That the US has unjustly invaded countries is not the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine

So why "US has unjustly invaded countries"? Surely not because of its "following is its own murderous history"?

And if it was all unjust, why no one got punished for that? Where are the ICC rulings against Bush, Obama and others, and international sanctions against the US of A as a country that blatantly violated international laws and murdered innocent people by the scores?

stancrist said:

you are making a false and dishonest argument in claiming that Russia is following a precedent set by the US invasions of Iraq

maybe you should read articles I linked above, that say exactly that: US set some dangerous precedents in international politics and use of violence / aggression against the other countries.

You may or may not agree with that, but this view is not unique and appears to be widely supported across the world.

mpopenker said:

       stancrist said: That the US has unjustly invaded countries is not the reason why Russia invaded Ukraine

So why "US has unjustly invaded countries"? Surely not because of its "following is its own murderous history"?

No, it's because the US has been following the precedent set by Russia during the last 450 years.  

mpopenker said:

And if it was all unjust...

Not all US invasions were unjust.

mpopenker said:

...why no one got punished for that? Where are the ICC rulings against Bush, Obama and others...

I do not know how the ICC works, so cannot answer that.

mpopenker said:

...and international sanctions against the US of A as a country that blatantly violated international laws and murdered innocent people by the scores?

I imagine that attempting to apply economic/financial sanctions against the world's economic/financial superpower would be problematic.

mpopenker said:

       stancrist said: you are making a false and dishonest argument in claiming that Russia is following a precedent set by the US invasions of Iraq

maybe you should read articles I linked above, that say exactly that: US set some dangerous precedents in international politics and use of violence / aggression against the other countries.

You may or may not agree with that, but this view is not unique and appears to be widely supported across the world.

I would opine that those who support that view either have an anti-US agenda, or they are woefully ignorant of world history.

As I noted previously, Russia was engaging in aggression against other countries centuries before the US even was a country.

By definition, you cannot set a precedent for doing something that someone else had been doing long before you were born.

It's dangerous to fly around Moscow those days...

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1694418895296188812?t=G83cy6_ThtymB7JsngflZw&s=19

The n°2 of Wagner was also in this plane.

Dangerous to fly around Moscow, or just dangerous to be a member of Wagner around Moscow?  

stancrist said:

Dangerous to fly around Moscow, or just dangerous to be a member of Wagner around Moscow?  

Well, let's just say "more dangerous than landing on the moon".