gatnerd said:

Most reports I've seen have the MG3 set to a more sedate 850-900rpm (for example, Austrias MG3.)

They are MG 74 and different to the MG 3

gatnerd said:

Was that the case in Germany, or did they retain the higher RPM bolts?

No, its the lighter bolt. The Bundeswehr MG 3 cycles at 1200 rpm.

graylion said:

LMGs are getting lighter anyway ...

Not really. The ones that are significantly lighter usually compromise capability, become flimsy or are made from (very) expensive materials.

graylion said:

So what about 8.5x63 for MMG with recoil moderating mechanism?

For an MMG the recoil absorbtion can be put into the mount. If one is required since the mount absorbs the recoil and vibration. If it is properly designed.

schnuersi said:

graylion said: LMGs are getting lighter anyway ... Not really. The ones that are significantly lighter usually compromise capability, become flimsy or are made from (very) expensive materials.

Like the FN Evolys?

https://fnherstal.com/en/defence/portable-weapons/fn-evolys-762/

schnuersi said:

The Bundeswehr MG 3 cycles at 1200 rpm.

Awesome. Are they still in production?

nincomp said:

From what I recall, the 8.5mm machine gun just does not add enough capability to worth the trouble.  The bullet is to0 small to carry enough HE for anti-material roles, so it can't really replace the 50 BMG.

How often does .50 HE get used?

graylion said:

How often does .50 HE get used?

Despite various tests in WW2, the US never did adopt a .50 HE bullet. However, the current "business load" seems to be the MK 211, a version of the Nammo multipurpose (SAPHEI).

gatnerd said:

Are they still in production?

That is the problem.
They are but not in Germany. As far as I know Turkey and Pakistan do still manufacture the MG3 large scale.

In Germany only replacement parts are manufactured on demand in small batches... if at all.

graylion said:

Like the FN Evolys?

Looks flimsy to me.

I have no information about this gun besides what the hompage says. Maybe its great maybe not. We will have to wait and see.

But I do want to point out that this as opposed to the successfull 7,62 GPMGs used in the LMG role the Evolys is NOT GP. Its LMG only. It also has a 16" barrel of rifle profile. Which means its sustained fire capability will be very limited. Its advertised as "handles like a rifle" so its seems its designed for a very special niche. It might be great in it. The question is if there is any serious demand.

schnuersi said:

graylion said: Like the FN Evolys? Looks flimsy to me. I have no information about this gun besides what the hompage says. Maybe its great maybe not. We will have to wait and see. But I do want to point out that this as opposed to the successfull 7,62 GPMGs used in the LMG role the Evolys is NOT GP. Its LMG only. It also has a 16" barrel of rifle profile. Which means its sustained fire capability will be very limited. Its advertised as "handles like a rifle" so its seems its designed for a very special niche. It might be great in it. The question is if there is any serious demand.

Time to define what we mean by LMG? I was mostly thinking SAW, leaving the GPMG role to the MMG.

I believe it's very possible to make a very light machine gun that's "not flimsy" it just won't look like much like an mg4 mg5 or an evolys.

I think schnuersi and I both agree on mg4 and mg5 being far from ideal.

I also think one way you could get something both light and high fire rate is by going the "mg45" the cetme Ameli sorta shows the possibilities in this regard, especially being pretty freakishly light for a mostly steel gun.

There's definitely ways to do what's essentially a super Ameli in a major caliber without increasing the weight a whole bunch.

This is not my personal preferred solution but I can't pretend it wouldn't be workable, it would actually work very well and be very low risk.

My preference is for a 235/248 revamp which can also be stupid light, and schnuersi will be happy to know that in a newer iteration there's absolutely nothing preventing a much higher rof.

Machine gun theory and practice is an interesting subject all around