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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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MGs   Small Arms <20mm

Started 9/5/22 by graylion; 10072 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

18/5/22

graylion said:

how ... vexing.

This is what happens if corporations merge and the local demand is so low that only one production facility can produce enough to cover the entiry demand worldwide.
Actually it is a good thing that its Swizerland and not some low wage country god knows where.

graylion

From: graylion

18/5/22

schnuersi said:

graylion said: how ... vexing. This is what happens if corporations merge and the local demand is so low that only one production facility can produce enough to cover the entiry demand worldwide. Actually it is a good thing that its Swizerland and not some low wage country god knows where.

that is admittedly true. But at the moment it does present a problem :(

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

18/5/22

graylion said:

that is admittedly true. But at the moment it does present a problem :(

AHEAD is most likely the least problematic ammo type in this regard. There are several that are nowadays exclusively manufactured in Swizerland. Which is one of the problems the Germany government faces with the support of Ukraine.
The 20 mm ammo for Marders is such a case for example.

graylion

From: graylion

18/5/22

schnuersi said:

The 20 mm ammo for Marders is such a case for example.

There are other manufacturers though. armaco, nammo for instance

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

18/5/22

graylion said:

There are other manufacturers though. armaco, nammo for instance

Only the original contracts are still in effect. Which means deliveries take place. Its just that this ammo can not be used as the customer might want to.
Getting a new manufacturer approved, getting a new budget for additional ammo and settung up the QM and logistics are an administrative nightmare and takes at least month. All of this matters little since the alternative manufacturers most likly work at full capacity too.
Its a problem that was created over a long time. It can not be solved quickly.

Its the same with the Leopard 1 requested by the Ukrainian Army. Since the last Leo1 was phased out of German service in 2003 and it was the last weapon system using the 105 L7 in the German inventory the ammo and everything else specially related to the vehicle and weapon (lots of automotive parts are shared with vehicles still in service) where taken out of the supply chain. All stocks where liquidated or scrapped. So the Germany military simply can't reactivate them, form a training unit, train Ukrainian soldiers and form units. Everything needed needs to be organised, produced and purchases. The number of active soldiers who have been trained on the Leo 1 about two decades ago is non existent since at this time there still was the draft. The number of NCOs and officers with actual experience on they system is very low.
This is the difference to the Gepard. It was phased out in 2010. There are still people around. The 35 mm ammo is still in the supply chain. The last batch of these tanks sold to a customer was 2020. Its more like an active system.
Marders are an active system but the active number is very low.

graylion

From: graylion

18/5/22

schnuersi said:

The 35 mm ammo is still in the supply chain.

But manufactured in .ch and can't be shipped to a war zone ...

graylion

From: graylion

18/5/22

schnuersi said:

Getting a new manufacturer approved, getting a new budget for additional ammo and settung up the QM and logistics are an administrative nightmare and takes at least month. All of this matters little since the alternative manufacturers most likly work at full capacity too.

And isn't that Ukraine's business?

EmericD

From: EmericD

18/5/22

graylion said:

But manufactured in .ch and can't be shipped to a war zone ...

C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé... (sorry, it's in French but I can't resist).

graylion

From: graylion

18/5/22

EmericD said:

C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

EmericD

From: EmericD

18/5/22

graylion said:

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

The German government had a large record of not allowing the exportation of several French-German joint products, or even French products that used German parts...

  • Edited 18 May 2022 12:04  by  EmericD
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