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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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MGs   Small Arms <20mm

Started 9-May by graylion; 9722 views.
graylion

From: graylion

18-May

schnuersi said:

The 20 mm ammo for Marders is such a case for example.

There are other manufacturers though. armaco, nammo for instance

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

18-May

graylion said:

There are other manufacturers though. armaco, nammo for instance

Only the original contracts are still in effect. Which means deliveries take place. Its just that this ammo can not be used as the customer might want to.
Getting a new manufacturer approved, getting a new budget for additional ammo and settung up the QM and logistics are an administrative nightmare and takes at least month. All of this matters little since the alternative manufacturers most likly work at full capacity too.
Its a problem that was created over a long time. It can not be solved quickly.

Its the same with the Leopard 1 requested by the Ukrainian Army. Since the last Leo1 was phased out of German service in 2003 and it was the last weapon system using the 105 L7 in the German inventory the ammo and everything else specially related to the vehicle and weapon (lots of automotive parts are shared with vehicles still in service) where taken out of the supply chain. All stocks where liquidated or scrapped. So the Germany military simply can't reactivate them, form a training unit, train Ukrainian soldiers and form units. Everything needed needs to be organised, produced and purchases. The number of active soldiers who have been trained on the Leo 1 about two decades ago is non existent since at this time there still was the draft. The number of NCOs and officers with actual experience on they system is very low.
This is the difference to the Gepard. It was phased out in 2010. There are still people around. The 35 mm ammo is still in the supply chain. The last batch of these tanks sold to a customer was 2020. Its more like an active system.
Marders are an active system but the active number is very low.

graylion

From: graylion

18-May

schnuersi said:

The 35 mm ammo is still in the supply chain.

But manufactured in .ch and can't be shipped to a war zone ...

graylion

From: graylion

18-May

schnuersi said:

Getting a new manufacturer approved, getting a new budget for additional ammo and settung up the QM and logistics are an administrative nightmare and takes at least month. All of this matters little since the alternative manufacturers most likly work at full capacity too.

And isn't that Ukraine's business?

EmericD

From: EmericD

18-May

graylion said:

But manufactured in .ch and can't be shipped to a war zone ...

C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé... (sorry, it's in French but I can't resist).

graylion

From: graylion

18-May

EmericD said:

C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

EmericD

From: EmericD

18-May

graylion said:

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

The German government had a large record of not allowing the exportation of several French-German joint products, or even French products that used German parts...

  • Edited 18 May 2022 12:04  by  EmericD
stancrist

From: stancrist

18-May

graylion said:

       EmericD said: C'est l'histoire de l'arroseur arrosé

help please ;) google translate is not making a lot of sense ...

This may not help either, but it appears to be what he's referring to.

The Watered Sprinkler - Wikipedia (fr-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog)

graylion

From: graylion

18-May

teehee! thanks!

In reply toRe: msg 163
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

18-May

EmericD said:

The German government had a large record of not allowing the exportation of several French-German joint products, or even French products that used German parts...

Basically every government has such rules. The US have ITAR. That is nothing special... as such.
The German rules used to be "no defense products into crisis regions". Which has been controversial to say the least. Especially the definition of what a crisis region is. This rule has been dropped since the invasion of the Ukraine. Which also was very controversial
The Swiss government has rules that are tied to their neutrality status. Delivering weapons to an active war party could compromise that so they forbid it. This has so far not been a problem. I am convinced that 99,99% of our politician and high ranking MoD officials have not been aware of this at all.

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