schnuersi said:

Not with the Jaguar but the AMX10RC. Just wait two or three month.

So, with a Ukrainian crew, not a French one.

Jaguar involvement would mean that France is co-belligerant, that's not really what I want for my children.

I also consider that a, let say, "M1 Abrams with a Saudi Arabian crew", is not really the same tank (and capability) than a M1 Abrams with a US crew.

I don't think that the 10RC is ideal for Ukraine, but at least it's a rugged design with useful artillery.

EmericD said:

So, with a Ukrainian crew, not a French one.

Yup, Probably a bunch of veteran Ukrainian tankers who have been in the war for a year. The comparison to Saudi Abrams doesn't work IMO

graylion said:

Yup, Probably a bunch of veteran Ukrainian tankers who have been in the war for a year. The comparison to Saudi Abrams doesn't work IMO

I mean that you have to carefully know the limitations of one vehicle to use it properly. If you take a "bunch of veteran Ukrainian tankers" that were raised and feeded with T-72s, and give them an AMX 10RC, that's not going to work well for them.

schnuersi said:

This is exactly the problem. In this case the wheeled vehicles have to stay on some form of fortified road that prevents them from sinking in and getting stuck. While its still possible to use them they are very limited to where they go. Which makes it easy to predict their movement and use this.

Yes. the question is whether one would want to design a dedicated tracked scout vehicle

EmericD said:

. If you take a "bunch of veteran Ukrainian tankers" that were raised and feeded with T-72s, and give them an AMX 10RC, that's not going to work well for them.

Well, the Ukrainians have proven time and again that they aren't idiots.

graylion said:

Well, the Ukrainians have proven time and again that they aren't idiots.

Of course, but the armor of the 10RC is offering protection mostly against rain and sun, so it could be a cultural shock when you're transitioning from a tank.

EmericD said:

Of course, but the armor of the 10RC is offering protection mostly against rain and sun, so it could be a cultural shock when you're transitioning from a tank.

Might not be a tank crew, might be an IFV crew. But I am seriously interested to see what the 10RCs will accomplish. Probably nothing now and a lot more once the ground is dry.

Given that Leopard 2 might not be coming in any quanitity and Leo1 is mostly on the books , the light-protected firepower concept will see a test.

leave enemy tanks to ATGM and use tanks to kill IFVs and other stuff.

Expensive upgrade  ~$17 million USD to convert a M1A1 SA to a M1A2 SEP v3! :blink:  later drops to 9.5mio $  , makes anti tank drones seem like a bargain .