gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Glock Performance Trigger - biggest G change in 40 years   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14-Jan by gatnerd; 873 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14-Jan

Pistols are the smallest of small arms, but Glock is a giant in the category. 

As such I thought this was worth discussing. 

Glock has now just released their Performance Trigger, which is arguably the biggest change in the core Glock design since 1982. It's a 100% tensioned, true single action trigger. But, they've also incorporated a 'sear hook' that maintains full safety and prevents the sear from releasing on impact.

https://www.docdroid.net/OPbroRf/glock-gen-5-performance-trigger-manual-pdf

Early reports are it greatly improves the Glock trigger, dropping it down to a 3.5-4lb pull and making the wall a lot crisper. 

Right now it's an aftermarket part offered by Glock for $100, but if it becomes a hit, I expect we may see it incorporated as a new standard feature. 

EmericD

From: EmericD

14-Jan

gatnerd said:

Early reports are it greatly improves the Glock trigger, dropping it down to a 3.5-4lb pull and making the wall a lot crisper

I don't see why someone would want a 3.5-4 lbs trigger on a pistol lacking a manual safety, but why not.

The trigger pull "profile" was an interesting point made during our own "PSA" program (MAC50 replacement), because we had to balance "shootability" (the gun is a secondary weapon that need to be used with minimum training, each our of training with a pistol is better spend training with a rifle) and "safety" (minimum training = safey risk).

The PSA is fielded with a NY1 spring and a "-" (minus) connector, so you have more trigger resistance at start (due to NY1 spring), but without increasing the "wall" (due to the minus connector). Looks like a (downloaded) double-action revolver trigger, with more feedback than a typical pistol trigger.

In reply toRe: msg 2
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

14-Jan

TRIGXSTER Adaptive trigger for Glock, developed and patented by one of my friends , noticably reduces 'shooter error , shortly getting first production items out.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

15-Jan

EmericD said:

I don't see why someone would want a 3.5-4 lbs trigger on a pistol lacking a manual safety, but why not. The trigger pull "profile" was an interesting point made during our own "PSA" program (MAC50 replacement), because we had to balance "shootability" (the gun is a secondary weapon that need to be used with minimum training, each our of training with a pistol is better spend training with a rifle) and "safety" (minimum training = safey risk). The PSA is fielded with a NY1 spring and a "-" (minus) connector, so you have more trigger resistance at start (due to NY1 spring), but without increasing the "wall" (due to the minus connector). Looks like a (downloaded) double-action revolver trigger, with more feedback than a typical pistol trigger

Great info on how the French pistol is setup.

The rationale for an improved trigger is increasing hit probability and ease of shooting / reduction in training needed to master the pistol.

In the US, Police / LEO instructors have frequently mentioned how many officers struggle with the hard wall of the standard Glock trigger, often pulling their shots low left.

Some excerpts from a pistol forum I'm a member of that has a lot of pistol instructors on it:

I've seen much the same at the pistol range on the civilian side. 

The flipside though is once you can shoot the regular Glock trigger well, shooting most anything else is pretty easy. 

I've been shooting Glocks since I was 18 (sadly quite awhile ago) and probably 90% of the rounds I've fired of anything has been from a Glock. 

But give me a gun with pretty much any other trigger system and I shoot it better; first time I ever fired my buddies 1911 at 7 yards, I put 5 rounds into the same bullet hole (it looked like I was missing the target until the 5th round opened it up to a ~0.60" hole), purely do to the trigger being so much easier. 

...

It's an open question whether this trigger will see military / LEO use, or further refinement.

But its definitely the biggest design change Glock has made, barring the G46 and its rotating barrel system.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

15-Jan

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

TRIGXSTER Adaptive trigger for Glock, developed and patented by one of my friends , noticably reduces 'shooter error , shortly getting first production items out.

Thats an interesting looking trigger to be sure.

Whats the method it uses? 

When depressed it looks like it ends up flush with the frame, is the goal the elimination of overtravel, or does it do more?

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

15-Jan

TrigXster is a floating trigger  designed to reduce trigger pulling errors ie shooters pulling the shots ither due to lack of trigger skills or high stress situation combined with lack of training.

By allowing trigger to sway left and right vs the whole gun and subsequently shot being pulled. We have seen in tests with Mil/Le folks that the difference in first-shot placement on target is considerable.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

15-Jan

For target/pesting/hunting, the new trigger will be useful.

Just be VERY sure to "keep your booger hooker off the bang switch". And use a good holster.

EmericD

From: EmericD

15-Jan

gatnerd said:

The rationale for an improved trigger is increasing hit probability and ease of shooting / reduction in training needed to master the pistol. In the US, Police / LEO instructors have frequently mentioned how many officers struggle with the hard wall of the standard Glock trigger, often pulling their shots low left.

I agree that improving the hit probability and reducing the time needed to train people is a fair objective, but you have at least 2 methods to do it.

First, you can reduce the "height of the wall", and that's what people are doing, using a standard spring and a "minus" connector, or developping triggers with even less poundage.

But you can also achieve the same goal without reducing the "height of the wall", by adding "poundage" before the wall. That's what people are doing with a NY1 main spring and a "minus" connector.

During our "PSA" program, we closely checked the hit probability of soldiers that didn't have the opportunity to shoot or train with handguns before, and the NY1 spring + minus connector give us very good resuts.

EmericD

From: EmericD

15-Jan

Farmplinker said:

For target/pesting/hunting, the new trigger will be useful. Just be VERY sure to "keep your booger hooker off the bang switch". And use a good holster.

Sure, and don't drop the gun on a hard floor neither.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

16-Jan

Use a good holster AND practice your draws with the gun empty damnit!

Or better yet with snap caps so you can track if you're Glock legging yourself.

As a long time carrier of no manual safety guns, this is kinda why I prefer carrying cross draw when possible even when pocket carrying.

By carrying cross draw I can use my trigger booger hook to push off the holster retention clip and straighten the finger as the gun starts coming up and out. As far as deep concealment goes carrying this way is very suboptimal but my state is constitutional carry anyway and it more than makes up for it in my being able to have a very strong positive tactile stimulus to tell me what's going on so I don't have to look down to draw!

Like most people I don't necessarily get to the range as much as I should or practice my draws as much as I should so this added positive tactile stimulus is very welcome.

To anyone who might tut tut about me saying it keeps me from having to look down while drawing...

We've all been to the range and seen at least 50% of guys doing it, I don't see any reason to pretend like I haven't caught myself doing it too. And besides, looking at your holster while you draw is way less embarrassing than making the range officer use his ifak because you shot yourself.

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