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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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True Velocity polymer case ammo   Ammunition <20mm

Started 17/11/17 by gatnerd; 11699 views.
Red7272

From: Red7272

9/10/20

roguetechie said:

I have a feeling that this would be somewhat incompatible and or expensive/requiring more manufacturing steps due to the way modern jacketed ammo is made. But that's just my first impression on it.

It would be possible to crimp the case into a groove behind the body of the projectile and in the front of the boat tail. it could be a quite solid connection and an option if retaining steel cases. Theoretically at least.

autogun

From: autogun

9/10/20

The impression I've had from the more recent Army press releases is that mention of penetrating body armour seems to have faded away, with the the emphasis now being about how the excellent ballistics, in combination with the advanced computer sights, are dramatically improving the hit probability at long range.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

9/10/20

autogun said:

The impression I've had from the more recent Army press releases is that mention of penetrating body armour seems to have faded away, with the the emphasis now being about how the excellent ballistics, in combination with the advanced computer sights, are dramatically improving the hit probability at long range.

Good grief.

I think you're right too; the official army description of NGSW no longer mentions body armor, just a generic 'lethality' and hit probability:

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/fws-cs-2/

The NGSW program significantly increases lethality and probability of hit at the squad level.  Due to the nature of the General Purpose ammunition, the 6.8mm projectile will outperform even the most modern 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition.  These weapon systems will give Soldiers significant capability improvements in accuracy, range, signature management, and lethality.

Which is nuts, as pretty much any caliber with a Fire Control Unit would have dramatically more hit probability. And there are any number of lighter recoiling VLD cartridge configurations that could exceed 7.62 lethality. 

Oy. 

EmericD

From: EmericD

9/10/20

Traditionally, small arms ammo relied on neck tension to keep the bullet in place, but if you look at medium-caliber ammo, the case neck is very short, look at the 25x137 mm or the 30x173 mm case.

I think that conventional ammo could be made with a very short neck (so short that it's close to non-existant), and that you could make "neckless" ammo configuration even with brass or steel case, with minimum modification to existing manufacturing process.

EmericD

From: EmericD

9/10/20

gatnerd said:

Which is nuts, as pretty much any caliber with a Fire Control Unit would have dramatically more hit probability. And there are any number of lighter recoiling VLD cartridge configurations that could exceed 7.62 lethality.

That's right, but even with a FCU you have errors, and with a high velocity round with a good BC bullet you could accept more errors than a lower velocity round with a crappy BC.

Anyway, you're right that replacing the 7.62 mm NATO with the 6.5 mm Creedmoor or the .260 Rem (or any other other cartridge like the .224 Valk, 6 mm ARC or 6 mm Creed) will already allows to achieve 80% of the single shot effectiveness gain that the 6.8 mm will bring.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

9/10/20

EmericD said:

That's right, but even with a FCU you have errors, and with a high velocity round with a good BC bullet you could accept more errors than a lower velocity round with a crappy BC. Anyway, you're right that replacing the 7.62 mm NATO with the 6.5 mm Creedmoor or the .260 Rem (or any other other cartridge like the .224 Valk, 6 mm ARC or 6 mm Creed) will already allows to achieve 80% of the single shot effectiveness gain that the 6.8 mm will bring.

Well sort of like we discussed earlier on designing for hit probability, using that wonderful software of yours. 

Absent the armor requirement, 'NGSW 2.0'cartridge design could be based on:

-Maximizing hit probability within the FCU framework 

-Increasing fragmentation range for EPR beyond 7.62 

-Minimizing recoil and cartridge weight while fulfilling above requirement

-Maximizing magazine capacity / belt density 

-Using NGSW 1.0 technology to achieve all of the above 

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

9/10/20

Or 570 Supercruise, which would allow you to achieve three times the single shot effectiveness.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

9/10/20

Put a crown of thorns on me and hang me up to dry, I'm a prophet, baby!

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

9/10/20

gatnerd said:

Well sort of like we discussed earlier on designing for hit probability, using that wonderful software of yours.  Absent the armor requirement, 'NGSW 2.0'cartridge design could be based on: -Maximizing hit probability within the FCU framework  -Increasing fragmentation range for EPR beyond 7.62  -Minimizing recoil and cartridge weight while fulfilling above requirement -Maximizing magazine capacity / belt density  -Using NGSW 1.0 technology to achieve all of the above 

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

9/10/20

570 supercruise also has it's stupid short time of flight to any given range which in conjunction with the FCU's will make it even more death laser like than even those charts suggest

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