The impression I've had from the more recent Army press releases is that mention of penetrating body armour seems to have faded away, with the the emphasis now being about how the excellent ballistics, in combination with the advanced computer sights, are dramatically improving the hit probability at long range.

autogun said:

The impression I've had from the more recent Army press releases is that mention of penetrating body armour seems to have faded away, with the the emphasis now being about how the excellent ballistics, in combination with the advanced computer sights, are dramatically improving the hit probability at long range.

Good grief.

I think you're right too; the official army description of NGSW no longer mentions body armor, just a generic 'lethality' and hit probability:

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/fws-cs-2/

The NGSW program significantly increases lethality and probability of hit at the squad level.  Due to the nature of the General Purpose ammunition, the 6.8mm projectile will outperform even the most modern 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition.  These weapon systems will give Soldiers significant capability improvements in accuracy, range, signature management, and lethality.

Which is nuts, as pretty much any caliber with a Fire Control Unit would have dramatically more hit probability. And there are any number of lighter recoiling VLD cartridge configurations that could exceed 7.62 lethality. 

Oy. 

Traditionally, small arms ammo relied on neck tension to keep the bullet in place, but if you look at medium-caliber ammo, the case neck is very short, look at the 25x137 mm or the 30x173 mm case.

I think that conventional ammo could be made with a very short neck (so short that it's close to non-existant), and that you could make "neckless" ammo configuration even with brass or steel case, with minimum modification to existing manufacturing process.

gatnerd said:

Which is nuts, as pretty much any caliber with a Fire Control Unit would have dramatically more hit probability. And there are any number of lighter recoiling VLD cartridge configurations that could exceed 7.62 lethality.

That's right, but even with a FCU you have errors, and with a high velocity round with a good BC bullet you could accept more errors than a lower velocity round with a crappy BC.

Anyway, you're right that replacing the 7.62 mm NATO with the 6.5 mm Creedmoor or the .260 Rem (or any other other cartridge like the .224 Valk, 6 mm ARC or 6 mm Creed) will already allows to achieve 80% of the single shot effectiveness gain that the 6.8 mm will bring.

EmericD said:

That's right, but even with a FCU you have errors, and with a high velocity round with a good BC bullet you could accept more errors than a lower velocity round with a crappy BC. Anyway, you're right that replacing the 7.62 mm NATO with the 6.5 mm Creedmoor or the .260 Rem (or any other other cartridge like the .224 Valk, 6 mm ARC or 6 mm Creed) will already allows to achieve 80% of the single shot effectiveness gain that the 6.8 mm will bring.

Well sort of like we discussed earlier on designing for hit probability, using that wonderful software of yours. 

Absent the armor requirement, 'NGSW 2.0'cartridge design could be based on:

-Maximizing hit probability within the FCU framework 

-Increasing fragmentation range for EPR beyond 7.62 

-Minimizing recoil and cartridge weight while fulfilling above requirement

-Maximizing magazine capacity / belt density 

-Using NGSW 1.0 technology to achieve all of the above 

Or 570 Supercruise, which would allow you to achieve three times the single shot effectiveness.

Put a crown of thorns on me and hang me up to dry, I'm a prophet, baby!

gatnerd said:

Well sort of like we discussed earlier on designing for hit probability, using that wonderful software of yours.  Absent the armor requirement, 'NGSW 2.0'cartridge design could be based on: -Maximizing hit probability within the FCU framework  -Increasing fragmentation range for EPR beyond 7.62  -Minimizing recoil and cartridge weight while fulfilling above requirement -Maximizing magazine capacity / belt density  -Using NGSW 1.0 technology to achieve all of the above 

i.imgur.com

570 supercruise also has it's stupid short time of flight to any given range which in conjunction with the FCU's will make it even more death laser like than even those charts suggest

I just thought about bullets and sabot, I think I have an idea to significantly reduce the cost of this kind of ammo. I will send you an e-mail next week.

Unfortunately, I still have no idea on how to avoid sabot slippage and in-bore yaw...