Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 478281 views.

From: smg762


You can drastically outperforn a light 5mm, go with a .22 or 6mm thats only 45grains, with an ogive long enough to retain the BC.

if you can solve the barrel wear issues, you have a 3800-4300fps round.  And no heavier than 556 with alum or poly case.

I noted that the 6mm unified, 30mm GAU, and some others have SUCCESFULLY used aluminum did they solve the problems i wonder


From: VPMudde


smg762 said:

Regarding l/d ratio, the FN 15mm had really long bullets for their APDS....look at the pics.

I did, and that is indeed a 5-ish calibre long projectile. And I don't remember that project being cancelled for something other than the sudden lack of a need for a weapon that outperforms .50 BMG but isn't an autocannon yet. That sabot is a lot bigger relatively than you'd want for an infantry weapon though.

  • Edited 07 September 2021 12:55  by  VPMudde

From: stancrist


roguetechie said:

...the good designs they screwed us out of...

Which good designs?


From: smg762


In terms of protectig from hard impacts, a CT could be good, but what about just havig an extremely long neck, and cramming the whole bullet inside it. 

Gettig a high BC is fairly easy because you can use a smaller caliber like 4.7mm and just make the bullet heavy ish. Like 48grains.

This is an obvious argument for velocity over bullet quality

  • Edited 07 September 2021 14:57  by  smg762

From: smg762


Ok before i sign off heres my last bizzarre about a .22  (AR2 or FABRL shape)

 with 4 slight fins or extensions on the bearing surface.  This brings the caliber up to 6mm or 6.5mm allowing for extreme energies.  

Again these fins are just as long as the bearing surface so they support the entire bullet in the barrel.

Obviously you need a wad behind it to seal the gas. And i dont know how these bore-riding fins would interact with the rifling


From: Farmplinker


FAL or AR-10. FN MAG, which we finally adopted..... after the problems with the M-60 were mostly fixed. That's just the 1950s.


From: stancrist


Yeah, but in the 1950s, the Army was looking for a lightweight rifle and machine gun.

The FAL weighs as much as the M1, and the MAG is almost as heavy as the M1919A6.

Sure, the FAL and MAG were better than the M14 and M60 in some respects, but how did Springfield "screw us out" of them?

As for the AR-10, certainly it was basically a much better design than both M14 and FAL, but ArmaLite screwed itself with that.


From: Mustrakrakis


stancrist said:

Sure, the FAL and MAG were better than the M14 and M60 in some respects

Stan, I believe that you misspelled "nearly all" as "some."


From: poliorcetes


I realized that Textron / HK rifle is needlessly extended backwards. As there isn't backward extraction, backwards movement only needs to reach the base of the fresh cartridge.

Steyr ACR - Advanced Combar Rifle - Modern Firearms

Just look at Steyr ACR. Before I could see the internals, I wondered (during the 80s and 90s) how the magazine was so close to the buttstock. And here you are.

Recovery spring can also work against recoil and thus it needs a sizeable working lenght. But it could be placed elsewhere and save some lenght to the weapon, even permitting an innovation as novel and groundbreaking as a folding stock