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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 484206 views.
Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

12/11/21

It may sound childish, but I just cannot bring myself to care about SIG's bid other than hoping it doesn't win/get adopted, They're only in due to rules lawyering the requirements and all they offer is dead end technology 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12/11/21

Gr1ff1th said:

It may sound childish, but I just cannot bring myself to care about SIG's bid other than hoping it doesn't win/get adopted, They're only in due to rules lawyering the requirements and all they offer is dead end technology 

Their LMG looks pretty good, so long as accuracy is ok (an earlier video had mentioned pretty poor accuracy, possibly due to the moving barrel.)

As far as SIGs case technology, I'm torn. I dont like it for 6.8, as the result is a 7.62 weight cartridge - obviously not great.

But, SIGs case could be really sweet indeed in a smaller cartridge.

For example, I'd be very curious to know how the velocity would be for a 6x45mm (5.56 necked up to 6mm) would perform at 80kpsi firing a 85-88gr projectile at 2.5" COL. With the SIG high pressure case, you could get a 'GPC' type performance out of a metallic cartridge not much heavier than 5.56 brass. 

Likewise, a .224 Valkrie at 80kpsi... 

This of course supposes that TV's cases may not be optimized for high pressures. On the other hand, if TV's cases can run 80kpsi no issue, then SIGs cases are indeed pretty pointless. 

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

12/11/21

I agree that their MG is the only good thing they've made, and the only thing worth considering to adopt, however I have nothing but bad words for their case "technology", seeing as TV cases can run 80KPSI (TV deliberately kept the pressure at 60KPSI for backwards compatibility with legacy weapons), In addition using TV's case technology would allow for your 6x45/.224 Valkyrie to have GPC-like performance at weight LESS than 5.56 brass, along with massively easing manufacture coupled with the superior thermal qualities compared to SIG's, In my opinion the only reason to ever consider a GPC is leveraging TV/CT ammo, otherwise the trade offs are too great

  • Edited 12 November 2021 0:44  by  Gr1ff1th
stancrist

From: stancrist

12/11/21

Gr1ff1th said:

Because the Army and GD specifically used the word "Novated", which by definition is a temporary lease of patent rights to a lessee (in this case TV/LSFW)

I think you are mistaken.   I could find no definition which says novation is a temporary lease.

Example:

"Novation is the process by which the original contract is extinguished and replaced with another, under which a third party takes up rights and obligations duplicating those of one of the parties to the original contract. This means that the original party transfers both the benefits and burdens under the contract."

  • Edited 12 November 2021 1:50  by  stancrist
Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

12/11/21

You're right, I don't know where I got the temporary part from, my bad

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

12/11/21

Exactly. It makes no sense at all: winning the bid would be a long-term contract for re-equipping US forces and possibly some NATO forces. Indeed the amount of money would be so big as for adquiring TV instead of quitting from the program. 

"OK, Textron is going to lose so we quit and give the victory to TV alone because reasons"

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12/11/21

Well GD straight up invented the .338 LWMMG concept, popularized the idea and worked behind the scenes to have the .338 become a govt contract program…then abandoned it. So they are kinda weird like that.

But who knows. At this point we just have to wait for more news.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

12/11/21

But there was no request from DoD about .338 MG. Now there is an official program, the need to overcome personal armor and a very high possibility of making a nice mountain of money from all the program. We are talking about rearming the entire squad of several armies during decades

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12/11/21

poliorcetes said:

But there was no request from DoD about .338 MG.

No thats what I'm saying - GD managed to get the DoD program created, $ on the table for SOCOM and possibly the wider Army/Marines - and has apparently then decided to drop out. 

https://soldiersystems.net/2017/03/20/gd/

Worked on it from 2012 to 2019-20, and then suddenly it was no longer on their website and no more info was out there about it. 

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

12/11/21

Now I understand. But anyways, a LWMMG was not easy to integrate in any organic structure, while rifles and assault rifles are and by the hundreds of thousands. Hombre, it's a totally different scale

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