gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3347
    MEMBERS
  • 190056
    MESSAGES
  • 4
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 521589 views.
RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

25/1/22

I seem to recall that the concept for the TV round was that it ran at a lower pressure and used a longer barrel, hence the RM277 being a bullpup.

 

smg762

From: smg762

25/1/22

if you guys could design the perfect ACR for hit probability, what would it be like

stancrist

From: stancrist

25/1/22

Thanks.  I had intended to say something to that effect, but it slipped my mind.

A follow-up note:  Although the barrel looks unusually long in the pic that gatnerd posted, it may only be 20 inches, like the MARS-H 6.5 DMR

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

25/1/22

gatnerd said:

Simply going from FAL to AUG proved a solid boost in firepower and hit probability for the Austrians, and was ready by 1977.

Very true.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

25/1/22

How did the 5.56 MG-42 work for Spain? I have read not well.

stancrist

From: stancrist

25/1/22

gatnerd said:

I personally think they should have tried something else new rather then the jump from G3 to G11.

They actually did try something else.  They went from G3 to G36.

EmericD

From: EmericD

25/1/22

Would depends on the context, but the goal of the ACR program was to "double" the hit probability versus the M16, and you can "double" Ph only if it's already below 50%.

For really increasing hit probability above 300 m, a FN FAL chambered for the .243 Winchester and using a 105 gr VLD bullet would have been a great improvement.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25/1/22

Farmplinker said:

How did the 5.56 MG-42 work for Spain? I have read not well

I had read mixed reports.

Certainly looks pretty awesome and controllable in this video:

CETME Ameli - 80 rd burst - WAAAAYYY more fun than the SAW!

WAY more controllable than the M249 SAW.Recoil in almost non-existent.Extremely portable - I'm carrying the weapon, with an 80 rd belt of 5.56x45 mm.My AR-15...

Given the G11's 1967-1990 design timeline, vs the 1974-1981 design timeline for the Ameli, theres every reason to expect Germany could have produced a highly reliable 'Micro42' in less time then the G11. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25/1/22

stancrist said:

They actually did try something else.  They went from G3 to G36

Well, the G36 was done after the G11 was canceled/failed. And it was only adopted in the mid 1990's, after the Cold War had ended.

Had the Cold War gone hot (say in 1984), the moonshot delays of the G11 program would have resulted in the W. Germans fighting hordes of AK74 weilding Red's with G3 battle rifles. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

26/1/22

gatnerd said:

Had the Cold War gone hot (say in 1984), the moonshot delays of the G11 program would have resulted in the W. Germans fighting hordes of AK74 weilding Red's with G3 battle rifles.

Had the Cold War gone hot in 1958, the delays of the M14 program would have resulted in Americans fighting hordes of AK47 wielding Red's with M1 Garand rifles.

George Chinn once noted that the Germans always sought to create tomorrow's weapons today, while the U.S. always sought to create yesterday's weapons soon.

It's easy to look back now and say they should have taken a different approach, but the Germans were just attempting to do as they had successfully done before.

Caseless ammo is a great idea, at least in theory, and seemed worth pursuing.  It didn't pan out, but they didn't know that at the time.  I can't fault them for trying.

In contrast, the U.S. was well aware of the assault rifle concept in the mid-1940s, but chose to ignore it and develop a slightly improved version of the obsolete M1.

  • Edited 26 January 2022 0:16  by  stancrist
TOP