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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 505308 views.
EmericD

From: EmericD

16-May

njb3737 said:

what’s the end game with the work you are doing on 5.56mm rounds ? Does the (French) army intend to procure an improved round to re fit into the HK416f ?

We are trying to explore all the technical possibilities available to enhance the 5.56 mm & 7.62 mm (lighter cases, advanced propellents, better bullets), then we will decide if "the juice worth the squeeze".

Additionally, those results will "feed" a technology program run by the European Defense Agency (including governments and manufacturers), devoted to define and build "a better mousetrap".

From a personal point of view, I would be pleased to see ours 416 FELIN (fitted with those large IR scopes) shooting those enhanced ammo.

njb3737

From: njb3737

16-May

Interesting, if you end up with a better 5.56 solution one wonders how the US 6.8mm will fit in to NATO counties future calibre choices.

Do you have a time line for selection of a new round ? 

EmericD

From: EmericD

16-May

njb3737 said:

Do you have a time line for selection of a new round ?

The French army decided for a "2 calibres" solution, with 5.56 mm for the PDW (HK416 F-C) and IW (HK416 F-S), and 7.62 mm for the support weapon (SCAR-H PR) shooting tungsten carbide AP rounds.

The choice of the successor of the Minimi is not decided yet. The initial idea was to buy a mix of 5.56 mm & 7.62 mm LMGs, but maybe we are going to buy only one version.

njb3737

From: njb3737

16-May

FN Evolys 7.62 must be a front runner on that.

Did I hear correctly that HK are working on a new LMG too ?

EmericD

From: EmericD

16-May

njb3737 said:

Did I hear correctly that HK are working on a new LMG too ?

Yep, heard that, around 6.5 kg with a quick-detach barrel.

And Beretta have also something with a "lock & load" bottom feed capability.

njb3737

From: njb3737

16-May

I believe Beretta have a new ARX replacement line coming up , do you have any info on it ? 
 

Beretta having a LMG maybe part of a new complete package I guess most interesting.

I got hands on at DSEI with Evolys from FN - an amazing design was very impressed with it. With HK and Beretta now potentially having light weight offerings competition is going to be tough plus SIG with its LMG ( 6.8/ 6.5cm / 7.62n ).

stancrist

From: stancrist

16-May

EmericD said:

By the way, I shot last week a very sweet 5.56 x 40 mm round, with a bullet C7 of 0.208 launched at 945 m/s from a "pseudo Mk12" (18'' barrel). Hitting at long range was so easy (and fast) it was like cheating.

EmericD said:

The cartridge started it's life as a regular 5.56x45 mm M855 from IMI, we removed the bullet, saved the powder, shortened the case by cutting most of the neck...

Sounds very interesting.  So instead of going completely neckless, this time you opted to keep a very short neck.  Reason(s) why?

Also, any pics of the bullet and/or loaded cartridge?

stancrist

From: stancrist

16-May

EmericD said:

       stancrist said: When 5.56 became the US standard rifle caliber, it in effect became a de facto NATO caliber.

Not really. The US "5.56 mm" was the M193, and what became the second NATO calibre was the SS-109 familly, not really the same cartridge.

Oh, please.  Using a different bullet just makes it a different loading, not a different cartridge.

In any event, the point is that NATO adopted 5.56 only because it was a standard US caliber.

EmericD

From: EmericD

16-May

stancrist said:

Oh, please.  Using a different bullet just makes it a different loading, not a different cartridge.

I would normally agree, but since the M16A1 designed to fire the M193 was unable to fire effectively the SS-109, one can't simply consider the SS-109 to be "a different loading", as you need another weapon.

People in France once considered the SS-109 to be "simply a different loading", and tried to feed the FAMAS F1 with SS-109 ammo, the result was not really impressive.

stancrist said:

In any event, the point is that NATO adopted 5.56 only because it was a standard US caliber.

I have to disagree. If the point was just to please Uncle Sam "because it was a standard US caliber", then NATO would have selected the XM777, not the Belgium SS-109...

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

16-May

So you got another round of your neckless brass case done did you?

I would ABSOLUTELY love to have a stash of that for my new 11.5" not sbr!

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