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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 552537 views.
JPeelen

From: JPeelen

19/5/22

How should the NATO partners make any decisions regarding the new U.S. cartridge?

Nothing of substance beyond bullet diameter is known. Is it still 80000 psi?  Who knows. How are the severe practical problems following from using 80000 psi solved? Will it go down the drain like SPIW/SBR?  Is the goal of hitting body armour at 600 m (after all, you have to achieve a hit to penetrate) a realistic concept? Is such a requirement a healthy base for a new NATO cartridge? Is it still in effect? Open questions everywhere.     

In 1947,  when the British went over to proudly discuss the results of their so-called Ideal Calibre Panel with the U.S., they had absolutely no idea that  the U.S. already had been developing a new cartridge for around two years. We are beyond this stage, but not much. 

The islamists say "You need to know nothing beyond what is in the Koran." I am under the impression that the U.S. policy follows the rule that press statements about NGSW are all its NATO partners need to know.             

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

19/5/22

mpopenker said:

one can wonder what kind of scenario this would be? China invading mainland US? Seriously? Red Dawn, anyone? China invading Australia? Or both AU and US invading mainland China? What else could be there that would need a new small arms system

Well, Red Dawn seems to be making a comeback:

In terms of 6.8 fan fiction 

-Australia retaking the Soloman islands to prevent the establishment of a Chinese military base in their area, with Chinese and Australian Marines exchanging tungsten

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/5/australia-urges-calm-after-solomons-leader-cites-invasion-claim

-China or US institute a Regime Change in the Philipines (to either break out or secure the first island chain), prompting the other side to try and counter it, either directly or through proxy. 

-US supports Japan to recapture the Senkaku islands from China

-My personal favorite - Vietnam attempts to achieve a security pact with the US, at which point China invades Vietnam to prevent US bases that close to its borders. In a perverse buddy movie, the US teams up with Communist Vietnam to fight Communist China. 

-And the most boring possibility - US sends ground forces to support Taiwan during an Invasion by China. 

...

That said, I'd place a lot more emphasis on Cruise Missile Submarines (like the 154 Tomahawk carrying Ohios) and long range Stealth Bombers with LRASM then I would on small arms. 

  • Edited 19 May 2022 21:22  by  gatnerd
stancrist

From: stancrist

19/5/22

gatnerd said:

I'd place a lot more emphasis on Cruise Missile Submarines (like the 154 Tomahawk carrying Ohios) and long range Stealth Bombers with LRASM then I would on small arms.

Now that sounds like a formula for starting a nuclear war.  grimacing

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

20/5/22

gatnerd said:

Australia retaking the Soloman islands to prevent the establishment of a Chinese military base in their area

From your link above: Sogavare ... also condemned the “glaring hypocrisy” of critics of his deal with China.

Good chap, but his words would fall on the deaf ears.

gatnerd said:

US sends ground forces to support Taiwan during an Invasion by China

Do they already have teleport booths in Taiwan, to drop those NGSW-armed GIs right into the front of invading PLA units and bypassing that silly stretch of water around the island which is much easier to control by China than by US?

Now back to the NGSW

Even if the 6.8mm NGSW outclasses (on paper, at least) the Chinese 5.8mm small arms system, Chinese units may have some weapons that their US counterparts lacking, i.e. relatively long-range 35mm one-man semi-auto GLs, very lightweight 12.7mm MGs (their latest fifty, the QLZ-171, weights on its bipod as much as the M240 Bravo, about 12 kilogram), and quite a lot of other man-portable equipment that could work on a small-unit type tactics that would make NGSW 'advantages' much less relevant. IMHO, of cause.

BruhMomento

From: BruhMomento

20/5/22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhFjUliSvVc

inrange mud test on the sig spear

no problems dust cover closed

dies when dust cover open (classic piston problem)

ig its meh didn't expect much

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

20/5/22

Except Australia and the US would never invade the Solomon islands, unlike your country which is invading Ukraine right now on flimsy pretexts, typical Russian lying and deflection, accuse your enemies of doing what you're doing 

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

20/5/22

Gr1ff1th said:

invading Ukraine right now on flimsy pretexts, typical Russian lying and deflection, accuse your enemies of doing what you're doing 

A-stan 2001? Iraq 2003? Libya 2011?

Oh, sorry, its all Russian lies. Back to my dark corner.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

20/5/22

I have been trying to warn people about these guns for quite awhile.

The chicoms have definitely stepped up their small arms game big time

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

20/5/22

Also for everyone wondering about the guns Mac is talking about as well as some other guns he didn't mention. Here some new chicom guns starting with the 12kg 12.7x108 gun then their new 5.8 and 762 NATO belt feds.

It's an extremely impressive crop of weapons.

And also a concerning one since people here should recognize specific features off various guns.

stancrist

From: stancrist

20/5/22

Gr1ff1th said:

Except Australia and the US would never invade the Solomon islands...

History does not support your assertion.

1962 - The US threatened to invade Cuba.

1983 - The US invaded Grenada.

1989 - The US invaded Panama.

2001 - The US invaded Afghanistan.

2003 - The US invaded Iraq.

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