Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 523443 views.

From: roguetechie



The sequence doesn't have to take a whole bunch longer and from what I'm seeing a lot of that functionality necessary to do so is already onboard the current ngsw FC.

Technically speaking with the existing ngsw FC so long as a set of sensors tied into your squad's data network has "eyes on" your target it can be designated by someone whose not you, show up as a discrete target option in your ui, and take offboard cuing which your sights ballistic computer will crunch and adjust the reticle for.

There's an awful lot of what will make or break these systems that's in the UI, networking specifics, and other things we don't normally think of with reference to small arms or small unit tactics.

We're on the cusp of having what are essentially aegis infantry formations where the shooter doesn't necessarily have to get HIS DESIGNATOR to laze before he can engage. Instead he just needs A DESIGNATOR to do so and for his systems to know where he is in relation to both the target and the offboard designator.


From: EmericD


roguetechie said:

We're on the cusp of having what are essentially aegis infantry formations where the shooter doesn't necessarily have to get HIS DESIGNATOR to laze before he can engage. Instead he just needs A DESIGNATOR to do so and for his systems to know where he is in relation to both the target and the offboard designator.

I totally understand the possibilities and interest of collaborative combat, because that's exactly the core of the SCORPION program. All those new vehicles (Griffon, Jaguar, Serval, Leclerc XLR...) are designed around this concept (sensor fusion and sharing the data around all the vehicles).

Collaborative combat was also the basis of the FELIN program, soldiers being able to share the video flux from their sight in real time.

Be assured that there are some drawbacks and limitations to this concept. 


From: schnuersi


EmericD said:

The 140 mm RAW was exactly that:

Have been thinking about it.
Was it really a rifle grenade with a rocket booster. All I could find seems to suggest it was a rifle launched rocket.

I was really thinking about a standard rifle grenade like the one on the picture you posted (what type is it? AVAP40?) only with a little rocket motor/booster in the shaft to accelerate it a little more once launched by a rifle in the traditional way.


From: gatnerd


The RAW isn't really a rifle grenade. I'd describe it more as a quick detach rifle fired RPG launcher.

Reason being that it features a dedicated 'launcher' device that clips onto the rifle and fires the RPG bowling ball of doom.

Capabilities are also more in line with that of a RPG or Recoiless Rifle; the air burst anti personell version seems quite spectacular:

The original model had a 3lb (1.36kg) HESH warhead but in later models this was reduced to 1kg. This round could blow a 36cm (14”) diameter hole in 20cm (8”) of double reinforced concrete. A later development was MuliPurpose Munition or MPM-RAW, a pre-fragmented anti-personnel/anti-material round using tungsten pellets and know as the “Flying Claymore”. This had five to ten times the effective range and lethality of a 40x46mm grenade and was fitted with a variable range and height-of-burst fusing for both direct fire and indirect fire to 2000m. Trials indicated 81% casualty hits out to at least a 35m radius. MPM-RAW also retained 90% of the breaching capability of the HESH-RAW. There were also versions with HEAT or EFP warheads with a laser proximity fuse designed to detonate the round at correct standoff distance. With the proximity fuse switched off the Anti-tank round could be used as a HE round. The large 40 cubic inch capacity of the warhead could also be used to carry useful loads of fillings such as smoke, CS or incendiary compounds.


From: gatnerd


In terms of Rifle Grenades, I had an idea awhile back to make them multi functional. Lets call this the 'MPG1' - for multi purpose grenade.

Basically, a rifle grenade form factor, but with 'dual fuse' ability so that the MPG1 could be used either as a rifle grenade, or as a hand thrown 'stick grenade' ala WW2 potato masher. 

That seemed like it could be pretty handy.



From: stancrist


Seems like it would be a very poor form factor for a hand grenade.

Significantly heavier and much bulkier than current hand grenades.


From: poliorcetes


Nothing bigger than a modern hand granade is going to make sense. 

Just compare a potato masher with a small drone with an optimized (non improvised) grenade or a smaller suicidal drone. The later can go through windows and doors, and the former is making the lives of the people at the front a hell right now. Specially by night


From: JPeelen


As a matter of fact, the German 30 mm HE rifle grenade of WW2 in the beginning could be used as a hand thrown grenade.

This feature was later dropped, possibly to simplify manufacture. I am not familiar with reports on the use.  


From: roguetechie


You almost stumbled upon an idea I've been kicking around...

What if you have a potato masher/fn bullet thru style "rifle grenade" (only maybe a bit bigger) that has a single folded coaxial rotor which deploys the motor using a simple air speed sensor that kicks the rotor open as soon as it stops accelerating/gaining altitude from either being thrown or being launched.

By using a single coaxial rotor like that and not needing the full power to take off or start from a dead stop you could use a much smaller motor to charge size ratio giving you more flight time/range.

It could actually make for a decent little weapon


From: Apsyda


Apsyda said:

Both GAO protests were withdrawn by TV via Lone Star. As expected they didn't go anywhere in the end.

I suppose that means that SIG really did at least fit the standards asked for by the Army, if not definitely being the best rifle. Shame the protests didn't go further on the off chance some interesting trials info could have been released.