Military Guns and Ammunition
Hosted by gatnerd
This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.
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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info Small Arms <20mm
From: stancrist
7-Nov
gatnerd said:Alas the 'SP' Special Purpose projectile is blacked out. GP EPR looks to have a pretty long steel penetrator though.
Thanks for that image. Looks like 6.8x51 has conventional pyrotechnic tracers. No OWL Tracers.
From: gatnerd
7-Nov
stancrist said:No OWL Tracers
Yeah thats a bummer; my dream of 100% tracers for improved hit probability is dashed.
From: stancrist
8-Nov
Don't give up hope yet. They can change in the future, if/when OWL gets ready for adoption.
Interestingly there appear to be two RRA types: Solid copper; and copper w/steel penetrator.
From: nincomp
8-Nov
stancrist said:No OWL Tracers.
There is a chart that shows production of 5.56 OWL tracers beginning in Q3 of 2023 and 7.62 OWL tracers in Q3 of 2024. The table also show production of 7.62 Lightweight Small Caliber Ammunition to begin at the end of 2023 as well.
Page 8 https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2022/future/Tues_GM_PMMAS_Santamaria.pdf
From: gatnerd
8-Nov
Great find. OWL and a lot of interesting projects in that slide.
Glad OWL is still happening.
From: EmericD
8-Nov
gatnerd said:However the 7.62 ADVAP concept is shown, which looks like an exposed tip AP or EPR, presumably tunsgten.
As a sidenote, the ADVAP is now type classified as the M1158, without the "X".
From: gatnerd
8-Nov
Good to know. M1158 opens up some better searches.
Alas exact performance remains a mystery.
Have you / France / NATO gotten to play with any? Or is it so far strictly US?
From: EmericD
8-Nov
gatnerd said:Have you / France / NATO gotten to play with any? Or is it so far strictly US?
It seems to be strictly US, just like the specs of the 6.8x51 mm.
From: gatnerd
16-Nov
Well, the concerns about Level IV armor defeat are growing more valid.
Russia has started getting Level IV vests - from Iran. This means that Iran (and likely its proxies in the future) may likely have Level IV armor.
Given the inescapable gravity well of the Middle East, these are a likely to be encountered target which may help justify 6.8.
