gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 750551 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

30/3/23

autogun said:

When two rounds of the same purpose (i.e. infantry rifles and LMGs) are shown side by side, apparently in a comparison photo, there is a normal assumption that they will be to scale.

Tony, I took your question to be in jest.  But if you genuinely do not know whether those two rounds are to the same scale, then I strongly urge you to go immediately to the nearest hospital emergency room.

At my last job, one day I noticed a co-worker was confused about a rather simple, routine matter.  I thought something was wrong with him, but I said nothing.  Two days later he died from the untreated stroke.

autogun

From: autogun

30/3/23

stancrist said:

Tony, I took your question to be in jest.  But if you genuinely do not know whether those two rounds are to the same scale, then I strongly urge you to go immediately to the nearest hospital emergency room.

Not in jest, but making a point: those who visit this forum will vary considerably in their knowledge and understanding of this subject, so it is helpful to avoid potential areas of misunderstanding.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

30/3/23

smg762 said:

what's the approx. weight of a polymer cased 7.62x51

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/p542y3/true_velocity_308_weight/

Weight was 294gr with a 168gr bullet.

So loaded with the Army 130gr M80A1 projectile it would weigh 256gr / 16.6g.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

31/3/23

But it's lighter than a cartridge would be to get that performance level from a standard pressure case, so technically it's a lot lighter.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

31/3/23

Farmplinker said:

But it's lighter than a cartridge would be to get that performance level from a standard pressure case, so technically it's a lot lighter

Yes thats true, and thats the lawyered interpretation SIG is going with and the Army accepted.

And to be fair, its not without merit.

For 6mm CAKE (85gr VLD @ 3000fps) I had envisioned a 6mm HAGAR sized case, but the sig could do it with a high pressure 5.56 case necked up to 6mm. A real weight and volume savings. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

31/3/23

gatnerd said:

       Farmplinker said: But it's lighter than a cartridge would be to get that performance level from a standard pressure case, so technically it's a lot lighter

Yes thats true, and thats the lawyered interpretation SIG is going with and the Army accepted. And to be fair, its not without merit.

I tried to locate the original PON to see what the actual phrasing was, but had no luck. 

The best I found was a TFB summary, which may or may not be a quote from the PON:

     "Ammunition Weight: 20% less than equal amount of conventional brass cased ammunition"

       US Army Calls for Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle Prototypes -The Firearm Blog

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

31/3/23

stancrist said:

actual phrasing

I recall the phrase 20% less then "equivalent brass case," which leads to some question of what 'equivalent' means. 

20% less than brass 6.8x51 case?

20% less than brass 6.8x51 cartridge?

20% less than 6.8x51 ballistic equivalent brass cartridge (ie 20% less then .270 WSSM)?

Regardless, the result is something likely indistinguishable from 7.62x51M80A1 brass to carry. 

smg762

From: smg762

31/3/23

whats the approx length of 6.8mm bullets compared with 762

smg762

From: smg762

31/3/23

any idea of the weight of GD's, textrons or sigs rifle?

or textrons ammo?

stancrist

From: stancrist

31/3/23

smg762 said:

whats the approx length of 6.8mm bullets compared with 762

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