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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 828324 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

20-Sep

Guardsman26 said:

I am quietly optimistic about NGSW. If it can deliver the desired step-change in performance while reducing overall weight relative to 7.62 mm, then it will be worth the effort of switching.

The trouble is, NGSW is meant to switch from 5.56mm, not 7.62mm.

Switching to 6.8mm will increase overall weight relative to 5.56mm.*

*Worse yet, the switch from 30-rd mags to 20-rd mags will greatly reduce combat endurance.

farmplinker2

From: farmplinker2

21-Sep

Saint Kyle of Kenosha demonstrated that Saint Eugene was wrong about the forward assist.

Also wondering if we're going to see some experiments with high-pressure 5.56x45. Just drop in a new bolt, and possibly buffer and barrel, would be very appealing. 70+ grain EPR at 80,000 psi could be interesting.

PRM2

From: PRM2

21-Sep

Apologies if this has been discussed before previously, has consideration been given to the possibility of mixing up 6.8 mm ammunition with 7.62 NATO when it gets into regular use?

From inspection of the cartridge comparison picture, it looks like the action probably wouldn't close if 6.8 was loaded in a 7.62 NATO weapon due to the shoulder position (relying on out of battery safety as well), however would 7.62 NATO chamber and fire in a 6.8 (possibly forced closed with the forward assist) with potentially catastrophic results?

stancrist

From: stancrist

21-Sep

I do not recall seeing the subject ever having been discussed in this forum, nor do I know if 7.62 NATO can chamber and fire in a 6.8 NGSW weapon.  Perhaps someone else knows.

EmericD

From: EmericD

21-Sep

PRM2 said:

From inspection of the cartridge comparison picture, it looks like the action probably wouldn't close if 6.8 was loaded in a 7.62 NATO weapon due to the shoulder position (relying on out of battery safety as well), however would 7.62 NATO chamber and fire in a 6.8 (possibly forced closed with the forward assist) with potentially catastrophic results?

Chambering a 7.62 mm NATO cartridge into a 6.8x51 mm weapon seems as easy as chambering a 7.62 mm NATO into a 7-08, a 260 Remington or a 243 Winchester weapon.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

21-Sep

Indeed NGSW 6.8mm for full sized battle rifle like Ar10, FN FAL , SCAR H  kinda nonsense it they really meant to replace any 5.56 arms

PRM2

From: PRM2

21-Sep

The probable mitigation with that list of cartridges, plus 6.5 Creedmoor, is that they are likely to be used by specialists, who would be more likely to catch the potential 'Murphy'. The likelihood of potential miss-chambering would massively increase if 6.8x51 weapons were mixed with 7.62 NATO weapons in more general usage, unless as many people suspect, 6.8x51 ends up being used primarily in the DMR only as a specialised anti-armour round. 

It would be an interesting test to do with a 7.62 NATO drill round, or in the unlikely event of being allowed to potentially write off an expensive new rifle, do a remote test with a live round! 

nincomp

From: nincomp

21-Sep

stancrist said:

I do not recall seeing the subject ever having been discussed in this forum, nor do I know if 7.62 NATO can chamber and fire in a 6.8 NGSW weapon.

With some 7.62 bullets, the bullet would get jammed in the freebore section.  The neck area of the 6.8 NGSW chamber is smaller than the neck on the case of a 7.62 NATO round, 0.312" vs 0.3435".  This  would prevent chambering the 7.62 round even if the 7.62 bullet were pushed back into its case.

EmericD

From: EmericD

21-Sep

PRM2 said:

The probable mitigation with that list of cartridges, plus 6.5 Creedmoor, is that they are likely to be used by specialists, who would be more likely to catch the potential 'Murphy'. The likelihood of potential miss-chambering would massively increase if 6.8x51 weapons were mixed with 7.62 NATO weapons in more general usage, unless as many people suspect, 6.8x51 ends up being used primarily in the DMR only as a specialised anti-armour round. 

Special Forces are already using .300 AAC weapons along 5.56 mm weapons, and we know for sure that some .300 AAC cartridges fit perfectly into 5.56 mm chambers. If you want a problem waiting to happen, then you have it.

You are not going to chamber a 7.62 mm NATO cartridge into a 6.8 mm or a 6.5 mm chamber, but yes, people could be issued the wrong ammo for their rifle.

PRM2

From: PRM2

22-Sep

That is an interesting real life gotcha. I could imagine the following type of event happening:

In close contact with the enemy, mates dead or wounded, ammo running out. Only possible source of ammo is some belted, looks very similar to my 6.8x51, quickly de-link it and stuff into magazines. S**t the action won't close. Is it dirty due to number of rounds fired? No time to check, enemy is almost on me, kick the b*stard closed. Click. Possible outcomes:

1. Have an expensive jammed up club.

2. Keblam, dead or injured soldier.

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