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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Importance of Naval Guns on a Modern Warship   Naval Guns

Started 19/8/20 by Greg (N9NWO); 10784 views.
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

10/9/20

One part of the FCS program was a series of multifunction aesa panels which is looking increasingly more prescient as time goes by and we see what the military wants long term.

TonyDiG

From: TonyDiG

10/9/20

taschoene said...

In the same tests, they also fired HVP from a Navy 127mm deck gun and something that looks like a 155mm Advanced Gun System test rig.  

It's been intriguing to watch the pivot; when HVP was announced a few years ago, it was sold as an extended range anti-surface round, but this test shows the transition to air and missile defense has been fairly complete.

 

There was a press release about the test that came out yesterday.  The test was fairly extensive.  Let me quote:

"The main live-fire scenario took place at White Sands, where bombers launched six BQM-167 targeting drones to simulate a cruise missile threat. Multiple systems targeted the BQM-167s, including the HVP round from the Paladin and a U.S. Navy deck gun, along with an AIM-9X Sidewinder missile fired from an F-16, an MQ-9, and a ground launcher. The outcome of the other launches is not public, Roper [Will Roper, the Air Force’s assistant secretary for acquisition] said, but the HVP’s success is and was a success story for a relatively unknown capability started at the Strategic Capabilities Office in 2013."

 

I was updating my datapage on the 5"/62 yesterday to incorporate the HVP program pivot from anti-ship to air defense.  It's rare to see a recent DoD procurement program where the cost per shot has radically reduced rather than radically increased.  Basically, this is because the program has gone from perhaps a dozen railguns needing ammunition to having over a thousand 5" and 155 mm guns that need ammunition, thus amortizing development costs over a much larger volume.  If HVP lives up to its promise, I think that the railgun program will be mothballed in a couple of years, especially as funding has been greatly reduced in the past couple of years.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10/9/20

TonyDiG said:

If HVP lives up to its promise, I think that the railgun program will be mothballed in a couple of years, especially as funding has been greatly reduced in the past couple of years.

Lets hope so; I never really got the purpose of the railgun. Essentially a super expensive cannon that requires a tremendous amount of electrical power.

Per BAE, the standard 5" HVP hits 50 miles, the AGS 5" 70 miles, while railgun would hit 100 miles.

Railgun just seems like a lot of effort to deliver a 5" shell the extra 30-50 miles, especially in light of the far longer range and payload of Anti-Ship missiles. 

TonyDiG

From: TonyDiG

11/9/20

It's a logical extension of AGS.  The concept is that the firing ship is too far offshore to be reliably targeted by shore-based weapon systems..  So, AGS - and ERGM and BTERM - was about 50 miles and railgun about 100 miles.  As the US Marines have pretty much abandoned amphibious attack, the need for long range gunfire support has evaporated.  And so, HVP is now repurposed as a cheaper air defense weapon which can also be used for land attack if desired.

taschoene

From: taschoene

11/9/20

gatnerd said:

The T15 57mm is really an awesome vehicle. 

.....

All in all it seems like one of the most versatile armored vehicles ever produced.

Remarkably similar in many ways to the  late 1970s Begleitpanzer 57 -- 57mm gun, coax MG, TOW or HOT ATGM, three dismounted infantry (scouts or ATGM team?) 

autogun

From: autogun

11/9/20

That's a much better photo of the Begleitpanzer 57 than any others I've seen. May I ask where it comes from?

taschoene

From: taschoene

11/9/20

It's hosted on Imgur.  I found it via Tanks-Encyclopedia, which credits topwar.ru.  But I'm sure it's a manufacturer photo originally -- it's also in the 1983-84 Jane's Armored Fighting Vehicles entry for the 57mm Support Tank, for example.

Worth noting that Tanks-Encyclopedia says there were just two human loaders in the troop compartment, not infantry.  Jane's says three infantry, but that might be a difference between the prototype and what they planned for a production version.

In reply toRe: msg 51
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

17/9/20

Some interesting look at the Naval Guns and options for the UK's new Type 31 Frigate:

https://uklandpower.com/2019/09/19/type-31e-light-frigate-weapons-options/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_31_frigate

Reportedly to have a mix of 57mm and 40mm guns, which seems a bit odd caliber mix.

Also 24 AA missiles, yet no obvious provision for Anti-Ship missiles. 

  • Edited 17 September 2020 6:07  by  gatnerd
autogun

From: autogun

17/9/20

gatnerd said:

Reportedly to have a mix of 57mm and 40mm guns, which seems a bit odd caliber mix.

That may have something to do with the fact that Bofors, who make both the 40mm and 57mm guns, is owned by  BAE Systems...and guess who won the contract for supplying the frigate? sunglasses

Actually, I don't think that a formal decision about the armament has yet been made.  It would indeed seem odd if two new gun calibres were introduced for a handful of new ships.

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