Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 114758 views.

From: schnuersi


graylion said:

yeah, just trying to figure out terminology. SCHV?

small caliber high velocity.
I though this one is common knowledge. Sorry.


From: Farmplinker


Extruded MG receiver? I like it! 

One thing about AM, though. People are, for whatever reason, willing to accept products made from it than other methods. "This has MIM parts". And do I really need to bring up some reactions to castings? 

Hopefully we'll see improvements in "acceptable" technology for weapons production.


From: roguetechie


Extrusions are great.... Almost sounds like you guys are inadvertantly describing the ots-128 in 7.62 NATO here.

In reply toRe: msg 308

From: JPeelen


According to the website "":

Today, the judgment of Düsseldorf High Court (Oberlandesgericht) had been scheduled to be handed down.

Instead, the court decided that it needs to re-enter into questioning witnesses. If I understood the legal language of the courts public statement correctly:

The court was informed that Heckler & Koch, before the German Patent Court, changed its way of arguing to defend the validity of its scupper (thats how I call it) patent. This is the patent allegedly infringed by the Haenel rifle candidate. 

The court sees the change of HKs position regarding the patent as substantial enough to re-discuss the matter in court, among other things re-assessing the chances that the scupper patent can be upheld at all.   

P.S.: For those who wonder: a scupper (German: Speigatt) has been for centuries the way Navies got rid of unwanted water on the deck: let it flow back into the sea through appropriate holes.   

  • Edited 06 April 2022 14:39  by  JPeelen
In reply toRe: msg 309

From: gatnerd


Looks like the much hoped for German re-armament may already be on the rocks:

Archive to bypass paywall:

Whole article is good, but this section jumped out:

Of course, this is from an American newspaper, which may be coloring the analysis.

For our German members, hows this stack up with what you guys are hearing / sensing? 

Is re-armament still on, or is it now being questioned?


From: schnuersi


gatnerd said:

Is re-armament still on, or is it now being questioned?

It was questioned the very second after the words left the Chancellors mouth.
That doesn't mean its canceled though.
Of course there are lots of people who question or oppose the 180 degree change. Basically the entire left of the political spectrum does. Otherwise they would have to admit they made a mistake and where wrong all the last decades. Which is not going to happen.

The celebreties writing a letter is acutally the reasonable part of these people. There are others that openly state that Ukraine just should surrender. Since this would be better for all of "us" and this way the fighting would stop immediatly.
These people have a very special relationship to reality.

My educated guess is the funding and rearmament depend on what is going to happen next. If the political pressure from abroad stays high and Russia continues to escalate it will happen. If not it most likely won't or only in a reduced way.


From: poliorcetes


What a sad story. AMELI could have been a really neat "machine", but program management was directly criminal


From: roguetechie


It really is a weirdly sad story.

What's even stranger Is the rheinmetal mg60 also failed to catch on too despite being equally compelling.

Personally I really like the Ameli. In my mind it represents the 5.56 belt fed done right.

Now that said, how useful 5.56 belt feds are outside of socom etc use?

That's another question entirely.


From: stancrist


roguetechie said:

Personally I really like the Ameli. In my mind it represents the 5.56 belt fed done right.

Now that said, how useful 5.56 belt feds are outside of socom etc use?

Jungle warfare?

A buddy was an M60 gunner in Vietnam. 

He once told me that he would've loved to have had a 5.56 belt-fed.

In reply toRe: msg 314

From: gatnerd


Another article on German Rearmament:

Archive to bypass paywall:

Germany’s Military Industry Gears Up to Restock Its Own Forces

The country’s chancellor has pledged about $100 billion to rebuild its army, but that increase in spending may not be enough to reverse years of neglect, experts say.

Shortages of body armor. Radios so antiquated they are the butt of jokes from other NATO soldiers. A dysfunctional procurement system that takes years just to acquire  shoulder patches.

After decades of budget cuts, the German military is woefully short of basic supplies, whether they’re bullets or backpacks. But galvanized by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Chancellor Olaf Scholz has pledged to spend 100 billion euros, or $105 billion, to modernize the force, nearly tripling military spending from the previous year.


Ralf Ketzel, a former artillery officer who is Krauss-Maffei Wegmann’s chief executive, said it would take no more than two years to begin delivering the several hundred Leopard 2s and Pumas — a kind of combination tank and armored personnel carrier — that Germany’s three combat divisions needed.

“The situation is not as bleak as it is sometimes portrayed,” Mr. Ketzel said.


Germany’s procurement system is agonizingly slow. Delivery of a new assault rifle manufactured by Heckler & Koch, which also supplies the U.S. Marine Corps, is seven years behind schedule because of a German law that allows the losing bidder for a defense contract to challenge the decision in court.

Not long after Mr. Scholz announced the increase in spending, the Defense Ministry summoned executives of major contractors to Berlin. One of the messages: Stop suing one another and work as a team, according to three people with knowledge of the meeting. The Defense Ministry declined to comment.


A March report to Parliament by Ms. Högl detailed the armed forces’ shortcomings, including shortages of basic equipment like body armor and winter jackets. The system for buying supplies is so dysfunctional that an intelligence unit was waiting to receive uniform insignia it ordered in 2020.

During maneuvers in Lithuania, according to the report, German soldiers were laughed at by soldiers from other NATO armies because they didn’t know how to use the latest communications equipment. The radios they had trained with in Germany were obsolete.

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