schnuersi said:

If i recall correct on of the major problem holding things like the 6.5 Grendel back has been patent and IP rights. It was not "open source" so it has never been intresting for a large company to actually push this.

There are other, perhaps more critical, issues that held back 6.5 Grendel.  For example:

   - Excessive bolt breakage

   - Reduced magazine capacity

   - Inadequate magazine reliability

   - Lack of machine gun links

schnuersi said:

...this dissatisfaction could come once there is the comparision to something better.

IF a SCHV PDW would be prooven to be superiour, which ironically can really only happen by fielding it in large numbers as standard issue preferable to be used in anger, there quickly could be dissatisfaction with 9x19 because there is something better around now.

I think you're right.  The trouble is, it means that dissatisfaction cannot -- and will not -- occur because it depends upon first getting a SCHV PDW fielded in large numbers.  And that is not going to happen as long as everyone is satisfied with the 9x19 caliber.

6.5grendel is less of an issue for AK platform or any non ar15 platform and if county just happens to manufacture most of worlds 6.5grendel ammo..............

http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/7504/1

stancrist said:

Requirements change. At that point in time, what was required was a short, light weapon more suitable for CQB and use in vehicles.

Exactly that is my point. Requirements change. They changed then, they changed after that and will change again at some point in the future.
This will happen to 9x19 as well at some point.

stancrist said:

There are other, perhaps more critical, issues that held back 6.5 Grendel.
For example:
- Excessive bolt breakage
- Reduced magazine capacity
- Inadequate magazine reliability
- Lack of machine gun links

All of these certainly could have been solved if there would have been an incentive to invest resources. But if someone holds a tight grip on patend rights nobody else is goint to do that.

stancrist said:

I think you're right. The trouble is, it means that dissatisfaction cannot -- and will not -- occur because it depends upon first getting a SCHV PDW fielded in large numbers. And that is not going to happen as long as everyone is satisfied with the 9x19 caliber.

Fully agree.
Unless someone does the first step the inertia will keep everybody at the "good enough" status quo.
This is not only true for the PDW topic but for quite a lot of pieces of military equipment.

schnuersi said:

Exactly that is my point. Requirements change. They changed then, they changed after that and will change again at some point in the future. This will happen to 9x19 as well at some point.

Of course.  9x19 will undoubtedly be replaced at some point in the future.

Just not any time in the near future.

stancrist said:

Just not any time in the near future

Especially since the MHS was just adopted. 

And 9mm really is a tremendously versatile round, capable of launching 50-185gr projectiles. It's possible to get pretty PDW performance from 9x19 with a projectile / pressure change while still working in the MHS should performance requirements change. 

schnuersi said:

They definetly do not issue rifles to AFV crews.

Interestingly, while Germany does not, it looks like the Swiss used to issue rifles to tank crews.

While searching for info on the Pz58 you mentioned in the "New taks" thread, I found this pic:

stancrist said:

Interestingly, while Germany does not, it looks like the Swiss used to issue rifles to tank crews.

Which makes sense concidering they have a militia system and the soldiers are all draftees who are supposed to take their weapons and equipment home with them as long as they are fit for service.
They really took the standard rifle idea to heart. I am not aware that the Swiss military even had SMGs at that time.

Also: look at the number of hand grenades issued to the crew.