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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 40611 views.
Red7272

From: Red7272

31/12/20

stancrist said:

A search shows P90 mag length = 10.6 inches.  By my estimate, that puts P50 overall length at a whopping 14 inches!

Plus there is an entire magazine between the bore and the line of the pistol in the hand. It's going to climb more than any other gun in that calibre ever. It's really a case for one of those angled grips stuck to the rear of the gun more than a conventional pistol grip beneath the gun. 

graylion

From: graylion

1/1/21

Red7272 said:

stancrist said: A search shows P90 mag length = 10.6 inches.  By my estimate, that puts P50 overall length at a whopping 14 inches! Plus there is an entire magazine between the bore and the line of the pistol in the hand. It's going to climb more than any other gun in that calibre ever. It's really a case for one of those angled grips stuck to the rear of the gun more than a conventional pistol grip beneath the gun. 

I don't understand why they are doing that. I'd put it on top like in the P90. This should also enable faster mag changes.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

1/1/21

"I don't understand why they are doing that. I'd put it on top like in the P90. This should also enable faster mag changes"

The Keltec system has the barrel above the magazine, which results in a much lower height over bore for optics. 

The P90 height over bore is pretty brutal, as it both has the magazine, and then also has to have enough room for the magazine to easily enter.

This would also make for a shorter height weapon, making it less bulky to have in a thigh holster. 

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

2/1/21

Totaly unacceptable unless you are selling next-gen squad optics then you can mount the sight 3x as high as needed

Snap from a video

smg762

From: smg762

2/1/21

That's another reason to use an MP7 style weapon.  As well as being far slimmer than the keltec,  you could create a custom optic which is mounted extremely low. 

The stock would need to be angled downwards when in use.... like the b&t use. 

Thus your optic would be no taller than a pistol red dot

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

2/1/21

The problem with the steeply angled for optics stocks are they have increased muzzle rise. 

In reply toRe: msg 31
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

3/1/21

Better picture plus specs shared:

graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

smg762 said:

That's another reason to use an MP7 style weapon.  As well as being far slimmer than the keltec,  you could create a custom optic which is mounted extremely low. 

TBH in all the reviews of the P90 I have read, nobody has complained that the gun is too bulky. And again, an MP7 style gun will not be able to accommodate a powerful enough cartridge, unless you go single stack. That is why I like the P90 style magazine solution. 
And a bulky gun in a thigh holster - yup annoying but I doubt that it is insurmountable to the extent that it will hinder adoption, compared to the advantage of carrying something the power of 5.45x39 around all the time with your hands free.

Edit: thinking about it, I can see the MP7 being more annoying in a thigh holster, given the height of the gun, which corresponds to he width of your thigh. That could be highly annoying. The width of the gun I see as less annoying. 

  • Edited 04 January 2021 12:30  by  graylion
smg762

From: smg762

4/1/21

You physically couldn't holster a gun as wide as the p90.  A mars sized round would make it even wider. Even the MP7 is barely holsterable.  Like I said it's not physically possible.  

The magazines are expensive,  and a real pain to carry around. 

Like I said my suggested round is no larger than a 10mm auto.  Small handed shooters often use the 10mm,  and being a carbine the grip would be. even more comfortable.  

with a steel core 5mm round its highly lethal at 300m.  using reverse feeding the gun would be nearly as small as a steyr TMP.  Quite literally half the size of a P90. 

Also.  a p90 style gun needs the optic set very high.  Again this adds a ton of bulkiness. 

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