Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 141533 views.

From: graylion


roguetechie said:

Yeah for what you're doing it should be fine. The solution space you're working in is going to be brute force over absolute aerodynamic refinement anyway and what you've got there is substantially better shaped than most other pdw rounds by quite a bit.

BC is atrocious though because of the low density


From: Red7272


graylion said:

BC is atrocious though because of the low density

You don't need a PDW you can just use a assault rifle like the AK-74u with a thigh holster.


From: gearmrk


The calculator on that website massively miscalculates Meplats.  Can't use it. It miscalculates another parameter as well, but I can't remember at the moment.  It will make you think pointy bullets are great when the optimum low drag Meplat range is 0.08 - 0.12 like someone said earlier.  

Years ago I asked people to stop using that drag calculator due to its issues.  


From: gearmrk


0.15 to 0.18 calibers actually.


From: graylion


Good to know, thanks. Not sure how relevant that is for this design due to short range and brute force approach. Also pointy being useful here because armour penetration.


From: larrikin2


The original 5.7 round was supposedly able to penetrate a NATO standard helmet at 80m and be pretty much nothing more than a bruise at 150mm.

The concept was to give the REMFs a weapon with lots of rounds in it that they could spray in relative safety because they weren't going to have to worry about killing their own side with wild fire.

So deadly when the bad guys over ran your rear echelons and got in close, but harmless at quite a short distance if said REMFs panicked and blasted fire all over the place.

In reply toRe: msg 297
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


So now the 5 and 7'' barrel .300BLK guns are all the rage or what  it seems French are looking for some.

They are looking for 5'' and 7'' barrel options in .300BLK for  Police and Gendarmerie

suppressor ,6 mags , M-lock interface on the forend

300K rounds of supersonic and 600k rounds of subsonic ammo

Modular construction enabling toolless conversion to 5.56mm


From: renatohm


My impression is that the current crop of SBR (in the same caliber as the 'main' rifle), mated with modern ammunitions / suppressors / sights, are good enough for the PDW role.

For police spec ops, a suppressed 300 BLK 5" bbl is probably the most versatile configuration, with good enough accuracy and punch for <50 m, unless bad guys start using body armor en masse.

In reply toRe: msg 335

From: stancrist


Ian just posted a new video.  The segment at 1:01-1:26 ( ) is interesting because it appears to imply that the Ukraine invasion validates the PDW concept. 

However, in all of the Ukraine vids and pics I've looked at, I have not seen any use of personal defense weapons like the H&K MP7, B&T MP9, or similar.  Has anyone else?


From: gatnerd


I’ve seen a number of Krinkovs (SBR class PDW) but none of the holsterable PDWs.

I do think the ATGM/RPG strategy does validate either the PDW or ‘light carbine’ concept. 

Namely, if your primary infantry roll is carrying and firing 14-50lb AT/ATGM/HE weapons, then you really want a light and compact firearm mostly for defense or close quarters ambush mopping up.

Something like Ian’s WWSD ultra light AR, as a 4.5lb carbine with 12.5” barrel and 7oz TA33 or Aimpoint T2 would be a compelling ATGM pairing.