gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3274
    MEMBERS
  • 185883
    MESSAGES
  • 3
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 41893 views.
graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

5.7x28 has a COAL of 40.5 mm. The round I just proposed has a COAL of 38mm. I have gone away from the MARS round.

And energy alone is not lethal. It needs to actually affect the body, ie get transferred. 5.56 can have lethality issues if it doesn't tumble. A larger calibre is better at that transference.

And what exactly does the barrel length matter with a red dot sight? Sight radius is irrelevant and you v0 is OK. If you can hold the gun steady with a folding stock and a front grip I do not see the issue. The issues that AR15 carbines have are due to a round that doesn't handle short barrels all that well.

And why does the operator error only apply to handguns? You can pull a charging handle too lightly too? Although probably less likely.

BTW can you show me a few calculations for your round? Case capacity etc? Do you have data for the Yaw minimags? I have been unable to find any. Also, with the energy loss you are suggesting you are talking about very significant bullet drop. That will make aiming hard indeed.

you can find an internal ballistics calculator here: http://www.bbt.scot/cgi-bin/pressure.cgi

smg762

From: smg762

4/1/21

With a 38mm OAL the round is barely longer than my 10mm style round... assuming your caliber is 22 or higher you'd need a wide case. 

It's well known that anything above 50ft lbs is lethal so a 300ft lbs bullet is sufficient.  Why add weight and recoil trying to increase that.  

6mm would give you identical retained energy as the 6mm KAC.  This had worse retained energy at 300m than the 22 mars.  And the mars would have worse than a 5mm cartridge. 

With a starting energy of 830,  the 5mm would be almost completely flat at 300m.  The lack of recoil means you could reduce weapon weight by 200-300 grams. 

If you must stick with 22/6mm,  at least use a mini-bullpup,  or mp5 style with reverse feeding.   Far smaller. 

or consider a round like the 6. 5CBJ.  Put the 5mm bullet in a sabot and the ammo size is barely larger then 9mm. 

Then you could make the gun as small as a TMP

graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

smg762 said:

It's well known that anything above 50ft lbs is lethal so a 300ft lbs bullet is sufficient.  Why add weight and recoil trying to increase that.

It is? Show me some documentation please.

graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/With_apologies_in_advance__How_many_foot_pounds_to_stop_a_man_/2-374376/

US Army used to consider 58 ft lbs the minimum to be lethal. That would make a .25 ACP a lethal round. I'm giving up. Whenever I challenge you you dodge, weave and don't provide decent reasoning. kthxbai.

graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

Missing a folding shoulder stock. 

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

4/1/21

Or a pistol brace, or whatever. I cannot realise any serious use of such ridiculously long "two-handed pistol" or "broadpistol"  or zweihander or whatever

graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

the retro look is rather bizarre.

graylion

From: graylion

4/1/21

poliorcetes said:

Or a pistol brace, or whatever. I cannot realise any serious use of such ridiculously long "two-handed pistol" or "broadpistol"  or zweihander or whatever

You know, calling that thing a montante is rather hilariously apt.

TOP