Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 123814 views.

From: schnuersi


According do the internet the Nethlands air force issued M9 to pilots flying anti ISIS mission.

No idea if they still issue the weapon or if they are issuing it more wide spread.

Msg 7776.595 deleted

From: stancrist


schnuersi said:

Looking at pictures with German troops from WW2 it mostly seem to depend how official the picture was. The staged, official propaganda pictures allways show soldiers in perfect uniform with rifle on the back. The snap shots taken during combat allways show very sloppy uniforms and no small arms nearby.

That's common in US photos, too.  But I did find a pic taken during the 1943 battle for Attu Island which shows M1 carbines on the backs of the gun crew.


From: stancrist


schnuersi said:

Since there are vehicles everywhere there are GPMGs everywhere. In the past on pintle mounts nowadays often on RWS. So what is the point of issuing carbines or rifles? The PDW is absolutely sufficient to buy time until a GPMG or heavier weapon can chime in.

Hmm.  Replacing rifles and carbines with a PDW would permit elimination of 5.56x45 guns and ammo from the inventory in addition to those in 9x19 caliber, which would tremendously simplify logistics and training. 

Plus, it would reduce the soldier's weight burden, while also enabling a substantial increase in basic ammo load.  And being able to carry 300-400 rounds of ammo in 40-round magazines would enhance the ability to use the "area saturation" method to defeat Level IV body armor.  (Disregard the pistol in the pic.)

In addition, using a compact, lightweight PDW would better enable the infantry to evolve from the centuries-old paradigm of shooting bullets that put little holes in people and things, into a combat force that wields weapons of far greater destructive power.

Okay, you convinced me.  I'm in!


From: VPMudde


Not to drag an old horse carcass out of the ditch, but: now all you need is a cartridge to feed the infantry's machineguns and DMRs :)


From: stancrist


I think they already have one.  relaxed


From: renatohm


People have been suggesting just this - more HE, less KE - for some time now.

Sure, you'll still need machine guns, but having PDW + HE lobbers + MG would probably be more effective than the current setup, and would only need 2 calibers in guns that are actually good on their jobs.

To add some spice to this thread - what HE lobbers? Mainly RPG with the odd NLAW here and there, plus ATGM for certain scenarios?

Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)


Maybe something like this  LG5 / QLU11 Sniper Grenade Launcher - Modern Firearms


From: lorisaare


That video is very intersting 


From: roguetechie


On the combat medic and other people thing, blue force gear and Vickers make a medics sling with dual tri glides to snug your carbine to your body while doing stuff that requires both hands. For most mos' this is actually sufficient to make a carbine good enough for most.

Especially if you went down to a 10.5-12.5 inch barrel.