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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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USSOCOM's Barrett sniper rifle   Small Arms <20mm

Started 23-Dec by autogun; 632 views.
EmericD

From: EmericD

24-Dec

I was thinking about the Remington MSR / Mk21:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_MSR

not the Remington ESR / M2010 (which seems to be a different species).

I really don't understand the current acquisition process of the US "Armies"...

In reply toRe: msg 5
nincomp

From: nincomp

24-Dec

I came across this quote: “The Army PSR program is adapting the rifle selected under the SOCOM ASR program,” Alton Stewart, a PEO spokesman, told Task & Purpose. “The initial rifle selected (Remington MSR, Mk21) did not conform to SOCOM requirements at the time and the program was re-competed with the Barrett MRAD (Mk22) selected as the rifle solution.”  (https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/barrett-mrad-military-sniper-rifle/)

Does anyone know the details? IIRC, the 2013 contract with Remington was for over 5000 rifles.

In reply toRe: msg 6
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

24-Dec

MRAD has always been an interesting design, definitely different to most, and i had a chance to shot it on one of the sniper comps couple of years back  ,liked the inline design and bolt raceway wiper/shroud

Realy only gripes i have with it is a  rather poor trigger  and inefficient folding stock design( quite a long gun when folded but is unavoidable because of the plastic sleeved receiver)

As far as i know, Army is only buying 536 rifles with gear for cca 10mio $ and Marines bought 250 'systems for 4mio $ but SOCOM has budget for 40mio$ so they could buy more , Remington MSR was ditched before all were delivered.

*I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years MRAD proved too heavy and all the multicaliber masturbation came to an end in favor of  lighter weapon in a specified caliber (Remember right now they are playing around with 7.62x51 ,300NM , .300PRC , .338LM  , couple of years back they were looking for MSR in 7.62x51 .300WM and .338LM  . They should have ditched the .338 and 7.62x51 and pick a good 30cal magnum and be done .

''Configuration Precision
7.62 mm 1.0 MOA (ES) at 328 yards (300 meters) (T) 0.5 MOA at 328 yards (300 meters) (O)
.300 NM 1.0 MOA (ES) at 328 yards (300 meters) (T) 0.5 MOA at 328 yards (300 meters) (O)
.338 NM 2.5 MOA (ES) at 328 yards (300 meters) (T) 1.5 MOA at 328 yards (300 meters) (O)    Hmm why would you pick this?

The whole multicaliber thing is a bit of a fad,Quick barrel change on sniper rifles has been around for past 40+ years , it just was not marketed as multicaliber I just don't see caliber change need in the field also why would you want an oversized and overweight gun for 7.62x51 ,doctrinal changes to sniper employment greatly increased effective range requirements reducing the 7.62x51 rifle to more of a Squad support weapon, not a dedicated snipers tool. 

Bolt rides a plastic sleeve that also acts as a wiper to keep the debris out of course has no issues running dry 

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

24-Dec

The idea, as I understood it, was have a heavy but soft-shooting 7.62x51 for most work, but have a gun capable of further reach on occasion. 

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

24-Dec

7.62x51 is meant for cheap training using existing ammo stocks. Does not provide the range snipers need/wan't these days even DMR are appearing with 6.5 Creedmoor,outraging 7.62x51 .  The sniper employment changed over past 2 decades in US , individual sniper pairs sneaking into the firing range kinda fell out of favor , instead larger teams operate in overwatch not necessarily deep behind the enemy lines but from improvised FOBs  , requiring far more range to cover other troops. Risk aversion that drove the military into MRAPs also reflects in sniper use.  Particularly after some marine snipers were killed in rather high profile fashion ,first 2 pairs were wiped out in Ramadi then 6 man team in Hadditha .

338LM was king of the hill for 20+ years but heavy and hard kicking (bullet design kind of outgrew the .338LM design), between original PSR and this one  300Norma Mag came to prominence as a lighter less hard kicking alternative to .338, now they are also experimenting with .300PRC as it could use a smaller lighter action than 300NM or .338 LM.  and deliver 1500y capability. 

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

25-Dec

It seems that MK21 didn’t meet the contract requirements and on re-competition didn’t win.

It may be related to Remington going bankrupt twice since 2018 and being broken up at creditors auction, but maybe not.

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