Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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USMC starts issuing suppressors in large scale   Small Arms <20mm

Started 13-Jan by renatohm; 1018 views.
In reply toRe: msg 6

From: EmericD


smg762 said:

So just to confirm, it would still mask your location with SUPERSONIC ammo...?


And here is how it works.

If someone shoot at you (and miss you), you will hear the supersonic "crack" from the bullet, and wait a fraction of a second to hear the "bang" from the shot, and this "bang" is giving you the bearing and an idea of the distance.

If the guy shooting at you is using a suppressor, you're going to hear the "crack", but not the "bang". But the "crack" that is traveling with the bullet is a shock-wave, and shock-waves likes to rebound and reverberate.

Now, imagine that the guy shooting at you is in front of you, and  that there is a large wall behind you.

You will hear the "crack" and wait for the "bang". As the bullet is traveling past you, the bow-shock will interact with the wall an be reverberated towards you, making something like  loud "bang", and I can bet that you will be sure that the shot came from behind you, not from the front. In urban setting, it's really easy to totally confuse the enemy, giving him the impression that you are on his right / left, or even behind.

In the open, you can also use the terrain topography to create irregular reflection of the Mach wave and generates localized noise sources. A known trick is to keep a small hilltop or obstacle between you and the enemy, the irregular reflection of the Mach wave will produce a localized and strong noise, letting the enemy think that you are firing from this hilltop or behind the obstacle when in fact you could be 300 m behind.

In conclusion, you're not masking your position because the enemy can't locate you, but because he's convinced that you are located in a totally wrong place.

In reply toRe: msg 6

From: roguetechie


For the purposes of this conversation 5.7x28 doesn't actually count as a milder round since it leaves the muzzle at well beyond supersonic velocities.

In answer to your question though, yes... It still works since what suppressors fundamentally do is slow down cool and mix the propellant gases with a volume of ambient air both reducing the peak decibel levels produced and spreading the crack out over a longer period of time.

As far as how much, to what degree, and from what distance you'll be fully masked that's going to vary depending on everything from the terrain and etc around the point you're shooting from, the terrain and surroundings the person you're shooting at is in, the surroundings and terrain between both points, the specific suppressor and round combination, the general power level of what caliber you're using, and probably a bunch of other factors I haven't listed or thought of here up to and including whether or not the person you're shooting at cleans their ears regularly or not.

 Something like this isn't binary yes/no statblock friendly when you're talking about the sound side of this equation.

However, the suppressor swallowing up the muzzle flash and whatever the sound reduction winds up being is still going to put you in a better position than using a rifle with no can.

There is one place even that may not hold true though. Due to the proliferation of cheap cheerful and passably good thermal imaging systems may occasionally make it so, especially at night, if you've been firing a whole bunch the can on the end of you're gun may make the origin point of your firing much EASIER to find.

Like everything though, universal suppressor issue is a trade-off. 

In nearly all realistic situations Though it's going to convey upon you dozens or hundreds of advantageous things for every one time it is suboptimal. So in the scope of combat innovations and force multipliers it's more or less an unqualified no downsides situation.


From: smg762


I mentioned  5.7 as an example but really  i meant if u change the overall power levels. For example if u went from 762 down to 556 would it further mask your location. 
Due to there being less shockwave? Likewise, i know 5.7 is supersonic but surely it has less shockwave and thus it masks you better.


From: nincomp


Are you referring to the supersonic shockwave from the bullet passing or the muzzle blast?


From: smg762


Both. I mean tge overall sound signature.  

Anyway on a random note, would suppresaors work with sabot or flechette rounds? Or would it affect sabot separation and accuracy.

I know the AAI rifle had a semi suppressor because it was so loud


From: roguetechie


That depends heavily on both the sabot and suppressor design.

That said, yes you can absolutely make a suppressor that supports sabots quite well. You do that by making a pepperpot style liner for your suppressor.


From: nincomp


As for the sound of the "crack" from the supersonic bullet passing by, Emeric has written a paper on it, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.  Hopefully someone else will post a link.