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replacing the A-10 and Apache   General Military Discussion

Started 1-May by smg762; 680 views.

From: smg762


could one have an arcraft that replaces both the A-10, and also the Apache. 

its a heavily beefed up Apache, weight-wise, but not as large as russian helicopters.

Like the A-10 its based around a massive gun, a 3-barrel rotary, which is perhaps as high as 35mm. this gives better hit probability on vital areas of vehicles while being smaller than the A-10 gun. it may be a smart gun too, like the CIWS or recent german AA offerings.

lastly the HE bullets have a higher payload than normal 30mm due to being much longer.

it's dual feed, and can switch to APFSDS. Jet's can't use this because of safety concerns.

The chopper is designed for better survivability against potential 1st world threats, where the A-10 and Apache are highly vulnerable. Firstly its a heavily stealth oriented design (like the commanche chopper and F35).

lastly it has good anti air defences if it did actually face a russian jet. A2A missiles and possibly that smart gun to take down missiles.  think along the lines of Rheinmetals 'Airburst' guns

i think the drawback is that its rather expensive given it's role - to support ground troops. Still, the A-10 and apache are getting rather outdated and while their fine against osama, they strike me as being highly vulnerable in a potential 1st world engagement... assuming russia fielded a super advanced AA vehical/system, could a stealth chopper actually stay out of radar? or could the F35 for that matter?

would a smart gun under a chopper actually stop incoming missiles, and be able to very precicely target, say, the tracks of a tank?

  • Edited 01 May 2021 6:57  by  smg762
In reply toRe: msg 1

From: RovingPedant


No, that’s a silly idea.

In reply toRe: msg 1
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)


A-10 was obsolete the day it rolled of the production line ,they would have been shot out of the skies in horrendous numbers in peer combat, there will be no 1:1 replacement for the task , standoff weapons are the only way to increase survivabilty against organic  AAA and SAM that Russians and Chinese pair with their armor .

If you look at how the US army uses Apache its stand-off, so expect to grow the stand-off ranges to enhance survivability. US navy and Marines use the Cobras much more close in as do most Apache operators their Apaches. 

So if you would want to upgrade the Attack hello force, i would expect more power , more speed , maybe some stealth, but mostly improved stand off missiles and maned unmanned pairing to extend the missile targeting range.

This was the only way to fight against armor with organic anti-aircraft defense, beck then was hugging the terrain   ,now you need more standoff, especially if the terrain doesn't offer much cover


From: smg762


yes the vulnerability of groundattack craft was one of my main gripes. anyway the other idea was that smart gun, literally like a rheinmetal 'AHEAD' airburst, but underneath a chopper or VTOL.

currently their limited to battleships and defending forward bases in iraq. Seems a shame not to make them more mobile by putting them on planes.  Also something like a multiplex / duplex subcaliber round (about 10mm).

In reply toRe: msg 4

From: larrikin2


I think the future for close air support is not going to be manned aircraft at all, but rather a drone swarm equipped with sensors and designators in numbers to give a high degree of redundancy, and terminally guided munitions fired from artillery and mortars, with small missiles also in the mix.


From: Farmplinker


My understanding is that if the Big European War occurred, helicopters would take out the air defense systems, then the A-10s would take out the tanks and IFVs.


From: Red7272


Farmplinker said:

My understanding is that if the Big European War occurred, helicopters would take out the air defense systems, then the A-10s would take out the tanks and IFVs.



From: poliorcetes


Hey, maybe the two first hours it would be like this. After that, or even sooner, nukes would start their only fly

BTW, the future of support in a contested space is unmanned, distributed, with massive swarms and a lot of NLOS / stand off power involved.

Thing is, both sides would do that