graylion said:

I am kinda wondering, is wheels = LIC and tracks = HIC too simplistic?

I'd say it depends on terrain.

Cyprus, a place I've spent a fair amount of time, the most of the country is basically roads or sunbaked hard earth, with some impassible wooded mountains in the center. 

For HIC against a Turkish invasion, I'm hard pressed to think of many places there Tracks would be an advantage.

Whereas the greater speed / ability to self deploy / less maintenance of wheels would be a boon. 

...

I have never been to Japan or Taiwan, but I wonder whether due to their extreme urbanization if they too would be best with mostly wheeled vehicles for national defense? 

gatnerd said:

I have never been to Japan or Taiwan, but I wonder whether due to their extreme urbanization if they too would be best with mostly wheeled vehicles for national defense? 

I have read that both Japan and Italy favour wheeled AFVs because they have very long coastlines to defend, and the ability to self-deploy at high speed is valuable.

Thanks, thats what I had imagined. 

EmericD said:

1. One point not adressed in the previous posts, is that it's better to have a wheeled vehicle "where you need it", than tracked vehicles "somewhere between the starting point and where you need them", because said vehicles needed to stop to cool tracks, rollers, broke something, or run out of gas.
2. Yes, wheeled vehicles can be stuck in difficult terrain, but that is also happening to tracked vehicles (you can even find videos of tracked vehicle stucked into difficult ground, to be hauled with a wheeled farm tractor), and in the long way you will probably have less wheeled vehicles stuck into mud, than tracked vehicles stopped due to part breakage.
3. And tracked vehicles are "orders of magnitude" noisier than wheeled vehicles, which is not really what you want for a scout.

1) Hence low loaders

2) percentage game really

3) rubber tracks, which AFAIK these days work for everything but MBTs

graylion said:

1) Hence low loaders

So, you expect your tracked scout vehicle to "scout" while loaded on a truck?

During the French intervention in Mali, it was not unusual for the VBCI to cover 500 km in 10-12 hours (convoy escort, patrols), I don't think that a tracked vehicle could do that on its own.

graylion said:

2) percentage game really

But still funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hheLODstezM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLtv2exMbU

graylion said:

3) rubber tracks, which AFAIK these days work for everything but MBTs

The noise difference between rubber tracked vehicles and wheeled vehicles of the same weight class is still impressive, and you still hear a tracked vehicle several hundred of meters before a wheeled vehicle.

all good points. I am just trying to imagine a Jaguar scouting in UA in mud season

graylion said:

all good points. I am just trying to imagine a Jaguar scouting in UA in mud season

I really expect that we will never have a "real world" answer to this question.

EmericD said:

I really expect that we will never have a "real world" answer to this question.

optimist

graylion said:

optimist

Sir, yes Sir!

EmericD said:

One point not adressed in the previous posts, is that it's better to have a wheeled vehicle "where you need it", than tracked vehicles "somewhere between the starting point and where you need them",

The topic of operational mobility is complicated. There is no simple answer.
Yes it might be better to have a ligher wheeled vehicle at some place now but it also just might lead to the demise of said vehicle. It entirely depends on the scenario.
The argument about operational mobility pro wheeles are usually based on the "Race to Pristina" in 1999. Where heavy mechanised NATO forces have been outrun by motorised RU forces. BUT this race has been unopposed! Most people overlook that. No roadblocks, no ambushes and no opforce in defense or delay. The NATO troops could have just hired a couple of taxis or used other civillian cars and would have outrun the RU mot force.
Yes wheeles are fast as long as the road infrastructure is largely intact and existent to a decent degree in the first place PLUS as long as there is no serious opposition.
There are numerous examples of Western forces getting stuck with their wheeled vehicles by rather mundane obstacles during critical situations. There are also several example where heavy tracked vehicles had to be deployed to solve this. But this is usually forgotten.
Wheeled vehicles are also much more predictable. Since they have limites to where they can go. Its much easier to funnel them into a kill zone. This is a major disadvantage.
 

EmericD said:

Yes, wheeled vehicles can be stuck in difficult terrain, but that is also happening to tracked vehicles (you can even find videos of tracked vehicle stucked into difficult ground, to be hauled with a wheeled farm tractor), and in the long way you will probably have less wheeled vehicles stuck into mud, than tracked vehicles stopped due to part breakage.

Its not only about getting stuck. This is specific for soft soil. Yes tracked vehicles can sink in too but they can keep going much much longer than wheeled vehicles under this circumstances. In addition the sinking in is specific for heavy tracked vehicles 40+ t range. Lighter tracked vehickes usually do not sink in. They keep going.
Wheeled vehicles are much more limited in any terrain of the road. Even if they can go usually their speed is greatly reduced. I have driven 4x4 and 6x6 trough the Canadian plains and its a horrible ride. You can barely go 30 km/h without bouncing around so hard it hurts. In addition this is putting a lot of strain onto the vehicles. A tracked vehicles, even light ones like the M113, can go full speed trough this terrain and its a very smooth ride.
The thing is tracked vehicles wear different than wheeled ones. The latter wears almost zero on roads. Which is not true for tracked that have a higher minimum wear. But as soon as it gets rough things usually reverse. Of course it depends on the exact details but wheeled vehicles break down frequently when beeing used in heavy terrain. Tracked vehicles not so much.

EmericD said:

And tracked vehicles are "orders of magnitude" noisier than wheeled vehicles, which is not really what you want for a scout.

This is also not true as such.
Its rather: A wheeled vehicles can go faster while staying quiet under the right circumstances.
It is absolutly possible to sneak a MBT very close to a guarded area. Did so myself on selveral occations. Under favorable conditions its possible to come as close as 200 m befor being notices by sentries.
The German Army used to have heavy and light recon platoons in its armored recon units. The light ones used the 8x8 Luchs scout car and the heavy ones used Leopards. Because somtimes you have to fight for intel.

EmericD said:

It's not unusual to detect a tracked vehicle from a distance of more than 1 km, and at the same time miss a wheeled vehicle at 200 m.

Yes especially if going at high speeds on a road.
But the direction of wind plays a major role. As well as the exact vehicles in question.