General -  Did God Use Evolution? (1197 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
From: TurkeyMasterJan-14 4:32 PM 
To: Dotsman  (78 of 93) 
 14699.78 in reply to 14699.1 

No, I think it was more like 5000 years ago according to calculations based on the Bible.  On September 17, 3928 B.C. to be exact, but I'm not sure if was in the afternoon or the morning.  

That would put it about nine hundred years after the beginning of the 1st Egyptian Dynasty.   ...uh...wait a minute!


  • Edited January 14, 2022 4:34 pm  by  TurkeyMaster
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From: srraglandJan-14 9:14 PM 
To: YoungGandalf DelphiPlus Member Icon  (79 of 93) 
 14699.79 in reply to 14699.77 

That's funny.


From: DotsmanJan-14 9:25 PM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (80 of 93) 
 14699.80 in reply to 14699.78 

What?  You're doubting what God told a goat herder regarding how and when he created the world?  Heretic!


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From: TurkeyMasterJan-15 2:21 AM 
To: Dotsman  (81 of 93) 
 14699.81 in reply to 14699.80 

Dotsman said...What?  You're doubting what God told a goat herder regarding how and when he created the world?  Heretic!

Guilty as charged.  I like Hitchkin's take on this problem.  NOT word for word, but the gist of it from memory: "Religion was man's first organized attempt to understand man, the world, and morality, and being the first, it was naturally the worst." 

However, I am not among those who think that all the writers of the Old Testament were idiots, though many were barbaric.  No, I think that there are signs that some of them were intelligent and wise.  However, in trying to understand the world, they naturally had very little sound data to work with, so they guessed.


From: DotsmanJan-15 10:02 AM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (82 of 93) 
 14699.82 in reply to 14699.81 

You're right.  Those who wrote the Bible weren't so much stupid as they were ignorant of how things worked.  Those who claimed that a god spoke to them and through them obviously were clever enough to understand that, if you liked to eat mutton, the easiest way to acquire it was to convince some fool to give you a sheep to sacrifice to some god.  That way, this god supposedly would forgive the fool of his sins, and the priest had something good for dinner.  Today, in order to secure the blessings of God, you're supposed to give money to God by first giving it to the preacher. 


From: NETIZEN_JJan-21 7:58 AM 
To: YoungGandalf DelphiPlus Member Icon  (83 of 93) 
 14699.83 in reply to 14699.74 

>macro-evolution has never been observed directly. I think that is what he means.<

And he's still wrong.

Speciation as a result of selection pressure has been observed both in the wild and in the lab.

That's 'macro evolution' right there.

That some people don't think that two different species of fruit-flies 'count' as two different species merely because they're reproductively isolated is due merely to ignorance.



From: YoungGandalf DelphiPlus Member IconJan-21 8:12 AM 
To: NETIZEN_J  (84 of 93) 
 14699.84 in reply to 14699.83 

No, I don’t think that speciation is what is meant by macro-evolution. What is meant is the coming into existence of a completely new species, like a rhinoceros when there was none before. Of course, the whole expectation is a mix of ruse and of misunderstanding evolution and its time scales. These things take much longer than our historical records and they happen during those timescales very gradually in hundreds, if not thousands, of steps.


From: NETIZEN_JJan-21 10:49 AM 
To: YoungGandalf DelphiPlus Member Icon  (85 of 93) 
 14699.85 in reply to 14699.84 

>I don’t think that speciation is what is meant by macro-evolution.<

That is exactly what is meant by macro-evolution, as 'micro-evolution' is defined as minor phylogenic changes over time within a particular species.  Like the famous 'black moth vs white moth' thing.

A new species is a new species.  Species are defined as reproductively isolated groups of individual organisms.  (which still is a fairly 'fuzzy' definition, for sure, as both ligers and tigons exist, and yet lions and tigers are still separate species, and 'species' is a bit harder to define for those organisms that reproduce asexually, like bacteria and fungi.)  But regardless of the difficulties regarding the definition of 'species' all speciation events qualify as 'macro-evolution'.

Expecting an elephant to give birth to a hippopotamus is the sort of nonsense that only Creationists from the Discovery Institute would be demanding as 'proof' of evolution.

No, actually, evolution is happening all the time, and speciation events are fairly common.  But a wheat plant doesn't magically turn into corn or barley, it might produce a different SPECIES of wheat, given the right conditions.

Some handy links for such conversations:



From: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member IconJan-21 12:17 PM 
To: NETIZEN_J  (86 of 93) 
 14699.86 in reply to 14699.85 

NETIZEN_J said...

Expecting an elephant to give birth to a hippopotamus is the sort of nonsense that only Creationists from the Discovery Institute would be demanding as 'proof' of evolution.

So it doesn't matter what micro-evolution or macro-evolution actually are. The above scenario is what evolution deniers term macro-evolution and vast numbers of the utterly stupid members of the public audience that hears their bullshit will say "Yep that's right, evolution is crap."

So you're right. So what? You sir, are pissing into the wind.


I would rather live a hard reality than a happy fantasy.


From: DotsmanJan-21 5:00 PM 
To: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (87 of 93) 
 14699.87 in reply to 14699.86 

Creationist like to teach that evolutionists believe in things like crocoducks.


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