General -  The Left versus the Right (1836 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
From: TurkeyMasterJan-13 5:07 AM 
To: NutGallery  (12 of 191) 
 14712.12 in reply to 14712.4 

NutGallery said...I never understood the left and right logic. It's just another way to divide our country. 

There is no left or right logic.  It is merely a way of describing political positions.  Now if you one is speaking of the FAR left or right, then yes, their ideologies have a kind of logic divorced from reality. 

But it is just a label.  A starting point.   I'm with you in that we need to not use labels to beat each other over the head.  We need to see details too, and to try and understand one another,  and to see what we have in common.  The very harsh tribal divisions we have now do nothing but harm, not to mention grid-locking congress from actually doing things.

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From: TurkeyMasterJan-13 6:05 AM 
To: RebeccahQP  (13 of 191) 
 14712.13 in reply to 14712.11 

RebeccahQP said...It's a parody of anti-left videos posted by PragerU, which I think is a right-wing religious organization.

This is great, as it give me the opportunity to introduce this YouTuber.  I have an advantage here, as I am very familiar with DarkMatter2525, having watched his videos for a long time. 

The whole thing is a parody of  the left and right, but mostly a parody of the far right's perspective of the left.   The PragerU is also a parody. 

2525 is an atheist who regularly parodies religion and the right. He specialize in pure mockery, but he is creative and sometimes presents very logical videos.  He has made perhaps a hundred or more videos.  Mostly he picks one religious concept and beats it to death in his cartoons.  This video lumped far too many ideas together, but 2525 can present videos making very good points.  If you do not like mockery, some of it crude, then you may not like his videos, but don't judge him by THAT video.  Here are some better examples below.  Each one is quite different from the other. 

Here is one on astronomy:  Science shows how profoundly egocentric creationists are: 

God seems to be evil:                       

Secular vs religious morality: How divine command morality is blind to the real world:      

God loves abortion & killing babies & kids:  It also suggests that many Christians have no idea of what is in the bible:

Atheists enjoy.  Theists might want to skip them.       

  • Edited January 13, 2022 6:22 am  by  TurkeyMaster

From: OldAl88Jan-14 5:17 AM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (14 of 191) 
 14712.14 in reply to 14712.12 

TurkeyMaster said...

There is no left or right logic.  It is merely a way of describing political positions.

Yes, and I tend to think it began IN parliament (England that is). The governing party or coalition (the government sits on the right of the speaker, and the losing party (opposition) sits on the left. I think in early days (of democracy) conservatives generally held power and were on the right, with the blue collar workers' reps (labor) generally on the left, so it would be a natural progression to label conservatives RIGHT and labor LEFT.

I'm not a political scientist, so correct me if I am wrong.


From: TurkeyMasterJan-14 7:27 AM 
To: OldAl88  (15 of 191) 
 14712.15 in reply to 14712.14 

OldAl88 said...I'm not a political scientist, so correct me if I am wrong.

Actually, you taught me something, as I had not thought about the origins of the words.  

I almost forgot you were from England.  A question, please?  I know that for Parliament to pass a law, it has to go back and forth in the two houses, as it does here.  But in the final vote, does a bill become law when passed by a simple majority, or do you need a higher percentage than that?   A higher percentage is supposed to give more stability to laws, but it can also cause gridlock where little can be passed into law and thus change is difficult.  This is the situation in our Congress right now.  The parties are approximately 50-50, and we usually need a 2/3 majority to pass a bill.  That is just not happening.


  • Edited January 14, 2022 7:29 am  by  TurkeyMaster

From: OldAl88Jan-14 7:16 PM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (16 of 191) 
 14712.16 in reply to 14712.15 

Sorry TM, not from auld England, from Oz i.e. Australia. Here yes, most laws require a simple majority in both houses. There are some things that need a 2 third majority, but they may only apply to certain things e.g. a change to the Constitution - I'm not all that up with parliamentary practice.

I am a proponent of outlawing parties. They do divide - awfully so. Now suppose a majority of the people agreed and asked for a referendum to prove it. Can you foresee a 2 party parliament agreeing? No way!

So do we have a democracy? I'm sure you know the answer.



From: TurkeyMasterJan-15 2:11 AM 
To: OldAl88  (17 of 191) 
 14712.17 in reply to 14712.16 

Sorry about that, dear aussie!.  

Yes, you have a democracy in the broad sense of that term of representative government.   Technically it is a republic of course.  

Pure democracy?  I'd be terrified if everything were decided by plebiscite. 


From: TurkeyMasterJan-15 10:59 AM 
To: All  (18 of 191) 
 14712.18 in reply to 14712.13 

I started wondering myself how long darkmatter 2525 has had his own channel on YouTube, and how popular he might be, so I did a bit of searching.   The answers surprised me. 

It turns out that he  is one of the most popular atheist channels long term on the internet.   He has been putting on anti-apologetic YouTube videos for twenty two years.  He had 160 videos back in 2008, so I suspect that he has far more than that now.  About 800,000 subscribers at that time with over 120 million views total. 

Christian, Jew Muslim, and atheist die and meet god:

  • Edited January 16, 2022 3:05 pm  by  TurkeyMaster

From: Ishmael112Jan-15 12:14 PM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (19 of 191) 
 14712.19 in reply to 14712.13 

As a Christian I subscribe to the idea of "Say whatever you want about me; just be sure you spell my name right."

For any set of ideas the stronger the criticism made the greater the number of people who will react to it.  And the criticisms you describe will giv Christianity more publicity than any message from believers would ever do.  

For Christians victory does not mean converting everyone; even Jesus could not do that.  Victory means existing in the public square, in the marketplace of ideas.  

After all, even the smaller and more radical parts of Christianity are not fly-by-night groups but have well established themselves in American culture.  


From: Ishmael112Jan-15 12:19 PM 
To: OldAl88  (20 of 191) 
 14712.20 in reply to 14712.16 

Whether or not the US is a democracy is something we Yanks will never agree on.  I suspect the situation for you in Australia is pretty much the same.  

But what neither of us is is a monarchy.  And we never will be.  

Even in Britain monarchy seems rather precarious these days.  


From: OldAl88Jan-15 5:19 PM 
To: Ishmael112  (21 of 191) 
 14712.21 in reply to 14712.20 

Ishmael112 said...

But what neither of us is is a monarchy.  And we never will be

I dunno Ish. Just yesterday I saw (in a TV article) that when the queen dies we will have Charles as King of Australia! The author is suggesting public discussion about becoming a Republic - it was discussed some 20 years ago but a referendum on it failed.

So yes Elizabeth is our Queen, and we have a Governor General as her representative. I couldn't care less - but I think most folks now might prefer to be independent. In the event of a stalemate, someone has to have last say, and I believe a Queen (who is non-political) or her representative is better than an elected PARTY person - like Trump OR Biden.

Now IF parties were banned, it would be a different matter. That individual might well have leanings Left or Right, but without a LABEL he/she might make decisions more acceptable to everyone. Division by LABEL is a trait & weakness of the human species. Think about it, whether by Nation, by Tribe, by Color, by Culture, by Religion or by Party - all divide. Tribes are mixing, Color is mixing, Culture is mixing, Religion and Parties not so - result division.


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