General -  AGNOSTICISM atheism/belief/knowlege (938 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
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From: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member IconDec-19 4:16 PM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (2 of 109) 
 14717.2 in reply to 14717.1 

Agnostics are atheists. You have to actually believe in a god to be a theist.

Agnostic is a useless word because it applies to everybody. Nobody can be 100% sure they are right about anything.

Atheism and theism are about beliefs not knowledge.

 

  • Edited December 19, 2021 4:22 pm  by  JohnDoe947
 

 
From: TurkeyMasterDec-19 4:28 PM 
To: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (3 of 109) 
 14717.3 in reply to 14717.2 

Sigh. 60 seconds?   How about letting me finish the piece before you guess what i am going to say or not say and criticize it.  :)     I deleted it to finish it off line.  Back later.   I might start it as a new thread so that my posts will be in order. 

  • Edited December 19, 2021 4:32 pm  by  TurkeyMaster
 
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From: DotsmanDec-20 9:47 AM 
To: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (4 of 109) 
 14717.4 in reply to 14717.2 

You're right.  It's really simple:  if a person is asked, Do you believe in a god or gods? and the answer is yes, that person is, by definition, a theist.

Any answer other than yes (such as no, or I have doubts, or I'm not sure) means that this person is not a theist.  A person who is not a theist is ipso facto an a-theist or atheist -- regardless of whatever euphemism they might want to go by, including agnostic.

 

 
From: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member IconDec-20 10:01 AM 
To: Dotsman  (5 of 109) 
 14717.5 in reply to 14717.4 

By claiming agnosticism they think they are fooling their theist adversaries. They might be. They might not be. They are definitely fooling themselves.

 
 
 
 
JD

I would rather live a hard reality than a happy fantasy.

 

 
From: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member IconDec-20 10:02 AM 
To: TurkeyMaster  (6 of 109) 
 14717.6 in reply to 14717.3 

TurkeyMaster said...

Sigh. 60 seconds?   How about letting me finish the piece before you guess what i am going to say or not say and criticize it. 

I wasn't guessing what you would say. Whether or not you think my response was a criticism is on you.

TurkeyMaster said...

I deleted it to finish it off line.  Back later.

Oh, I can hardly wait.

TurkeyMaster said...

I might start it as a new thread so that my posts will be in order. 

Sounds like an excellent idea.

 
 
 
 
JD

I would rather live a hard reality than a happy fantasy.

 

 
From: DotsmanDec-20 10:08 AM 
To: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (7 of 109) 
 14717.7 in reply to 14717.5 

I think a lot of people like to go by the term agnostic because they think that, to theists, this sounds more open-minded than atheist.  "Oh, you're just an agnostic; then, unlike those closed-minded atheists, you are still willing to maybe change your mind.  Great!" 

 

 
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From: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member IconDec-20 10:45 AM 
To: Dotsman  (8 of 109) 
 14717.8 in reply to 14717.7 

Dotsman said...

I think a lot of people like to go by the term agnostic because they think that, to theists, this sounds more open-minded than atheist.

Perhaps. But maybe they are just kicking the can down the road because they don't want to deal with saying they don't believe and, therefore, risk the wrath and ire of the loving xtians they are dealing with.

  • Edited December 20, 2021 11:17 am  by  JohnDoe947
 

 
From: NETIZEN_JDec-20 10:51 AM 
To: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 109) 
 14717.9 in reply to 14717.5 

Agnostic is a term that was created when announcing that you were an atheist was to court civil punishment or even execution as a 'heretic'.

It's an intentionally created weasel-word to let folks be 'doubtful' without getting executed for publicly sharing their doubts.

Yes, all agnostics are atheists.

N_J

 

 
From: JohnDoe947 DelphiPlus Member IconDec-20 11:18 AM 
To: NETIZEN_J  (10 of 109) 
 14717.10 in reply to 14717.9 

I don't disagree with any of that.

 
 
 
 
JD

I would rather live a hard reality than a happy fantasy.

 

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