Promoting responsible German Shepherd Dog ownership
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Where do you live? PSA is dominated by Mals and DS’s. The KNPV lines are unregistered X’s and the Mal X’s and DS X’s are the same breed. If a pup is fawn colored it is called a Mal and if it is brindle it is called a DS. The FCI lines of DS are a distinct breed and typically are much more inferior as a sport/working dog.
Way out west in woke country. Pits are the predominate breed. There are very few training clubs in my area. I usually run into a lot of rescued pet dogs, many mixed breeds.
Here is the rest of that last video where the dog outs the bite on the second attacker, transports him to the judge and then send toward the fleeing decoy for apprehension. It was the first time we had done the whole scenario so my dog wasn’t clear whether he should recall on the out or guard, but he figured it out.
It was his decision to return to the decoy? You did not give another command? That is so cool to see him in action. I haven’t watched a PSA trial before.
You are aware they are banning the stick in IGE. Are there an concerns about limitations pending on PSA?
To be clear, this is just training. I gave the out command and he was unclear because we have only done a few outs when he does a flee bite on the tricep from behind. With the out command he is supposed to automatically go into either a silent or active guard. On the out command, he paused, started to return to me so I gave the guard command and he gave an uncommitted bite which he shouldn’t have but was confused, another guard command, and an even less committed bite due to confusion, another guard and he figured it out, so it is something we need to work on. A verbal out command means to out guard and blowing the whistle means to out and immediately return to heel, or return to heel in obedience, or is a signal to be called off the bite. Sports like KNPV, PSA, and American Schutzhund are not affiliated with the FCI who has caved to the animal rights people to eliminate stick hits. Many Mals in those sports are unregistered so the FCI has no power such as restricting pedigrees because there are no registered pedigrees. My dog registered with the Canadian KC and AKC, and so far, there is attempt to restrict pedigrees for dogs in protection sports with stick hits. I see no value in registries for pedigrees. The non FCI unregistered dogs have the best working ability. For registered breeds, just look to the GSD show lines or any AKC breed where there are no required standards for breeding. The breeder should be responsible and not policed by a registry. $ is a big factor. The next step for the animal rights people to ban prong and ecollar. It is similar to 2nd Ammendment advocates and anti gun people.
If he can figure it out on his own he’s very close to having it down. The difference between a verbal command and a whistle is subtle. It takes skill to teach him everything well. It’s a complicated program.
If they ban sticks and training collars they will lose mo yea and eventually become no more challenging than obedience trials. Those require skill but temperament doesn’t matter
Are you in Canada? I thought you were in Northeastern United States. Why aren’t more Mals registered?
I am in Virginia. I imported my dog from Canada at 16 weeks of age. Certain countries have registered and unregistered lines of breeds, Mals in particular, such as Belgium and the Netherlands. They don't want to be beholding to the FCI because of the power they yield and because they believe a registered pedigree overseen by a body by the FCI does not improve the quality of dogs, and actually leads to a decline in breeds. AKC is a perfect example. You can breed a totally crap, pet dog with HD, but as long as the dog has AKC "papers" the pups will have papers and BYB will breed to make a little profit at the expense of the breed. As I have said with the Dutch KNPV Mal X's, in the past, they have outcrossed to other breeds to bring in desirable traits and sometimes the unregistered pedigrees are not factual, but the breeders know their lines and what they produce and they want to produce the best working dogs and don't need an official registry to hold their hand or yield a stick over them. I would argue the SV is almost as bad as the AKC. They put on this facade of keeping very high standards in order to breed, but the German/European GSD show lines are an embarrassment, but are the large majority of the GSDs and they bring in a lot of money for essentially a fake working dog with unnatural conformation. My bias is that Schutzhund/IGP in modern times has harmed the breed resulting in it becoming a bastardized version of its original intent and becoming a sport dog. The dogs are unbalanced in prey and aggression. The true herding lines have been lost due to the influence of the SV. Now no stick hits, no prong collars or e-collars. People can abuse dogs in many ways, not just with e-collars or prong collars. Plus, how will they police it? People will train in indoor facilities or private property with restricted access and monitor for surveillance. PSA should not be affected but these restrictions due to not being sanctioned by the FCI, but there are people in the sport being proactive trying to educate legislators and others about how these tools and tests of a dog's temperament are not cruel. There are way more cruel pet owners who do so out of malice and stupidity, who never train their dogs or vet them, and just tie them out and have no relationship with their dogs.
That’s a helpful summary of the mess they have made of breeding sport and working shepherds and Mals. Getting away from pedigrees may save Mals and Dutchies. We are on the fence about our next dog. No one in my family or extended family thinks we need another high drive German Shepherd. It’s upsetting that breeding has moved so far away from standards.
It has been a long time since schutzhund was a breed suitability test. Once it and now IGP became a competition sport and points were the goal, selection for breeding shifted to select for traits that would allow dogs to excel in sports. Same for all other protection sports with KNPV being different, with most trainers just looking to get the entry level PH1 and selling the dog as a police dog prospect and getting another dog to train. There are some in KNPV who strive to strain to the higher levels and the podium, and ironically, those dogs typically are less likely to be more suited for police work. There are still some balanced GSDs, but most are more sporty. But most people who compete just want a dog they can compete with. I prefer a dog with enough aggression that it doesn’t impede success in competition, yet a dog that will likely protect. As to how much pressure a dog that will protect can handle is another matter. Police, military, special operations dogs need to be tested at levels that sport never approach. Plus, those dogs needs to be in the hands of highly skilled handlers. I consider my dog to have high drive, but that is a relative term, and he certainly is not extreme in drive and does very well as a house dog.
Police can handle the occasional dog that will come up the leash on them. It’s also harder to find dual duty dogs who can apprehend and protect and also search. I’ve noticed police get the dogs they can purchase or get donated and then fit them to their needs. Police dogs must handle pressure, but also they don’t need to out. The handler needs to be able to lift them off if they have to. I’ve seen K9s at the vet. They knock them out even for a basic exam, shots and treatment, because the dogs can’t tolerate vet handling. That works for police dogs but not for pet sport dogs. They need to be able to perform in the field but also do every day tasks and vet care.
I am amused by sport people who act as if their dogs are the toughest dogs out there. It doesn’t happen here anymore but a very nice woman who used to be a member of both forums bought a “killer” dog from a breeder over there. Only the dog was pretty mild and eventually she stopped posting about their accomplishments. The breeder saw her as an pet owner and sold her a lovely dog that wouldn’t put too many impediments in the way of her training. The dog was not fierce or anything else the owner claimed it was. I can tell by watching their videos if a dog is performing well at the level it needs to, or if it’s a pet dog just out there having fun and maybe being edged into a title.