This is a place for friendly and civil discussion of horse racing of all types including handicapping.
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Between Helium and S & S who in your opinion is the better colt? After watching the TB Derby Helium came from about 12 lengths off the lead and was wide. Ran a great race. Jose Ferrer? Just can't see this guy doing it come May 1. Really i never heard of him before this race.
ChiefsCrown said...Really i never heard of him before this race.
Look, I put Helium up for consideration because he's an UNDEFEATED colt. ....Undefeated in 3 career starts, 2 of them stakes races. 1 at Woodbine. Then at Tampa.
A young colt with an undefeated resume should certainly be *heard of*. (Mine that Bird suffered the "I raced in Canada" bias).
We know how the talking heads and east coast turf writers do not recognize any races or horses who don't race in the Continental U.S.
I can't fix that.
Nobody talks about Obesos, either......another one I've pushed into the conversation. he'll be *on* radar now that early Brisnet PPs came out (n best speed at distance category).
Next I'll be hearing that Sainthood doesn't have the *BSF* speed numbers, I'm sure. LOL (either did Animal Kingdom).
As for S&S, I can't compare. But I did not like how he looked getting off the plane. I will wait and see how he does at CDX.
I'm very blessed that I don't have or use TV, I don't read DRF, or any of the talking heads. Unless someone sends me somthing directly and it's someone I respect their opinion. Otherwise, I stay in my own lane and just watch races and make my own thoughts about the horses. I could care less what 99% of the talking heads think. z
I DO care what some of my forum buddies think, here and at one other forum....ALL of ya'll.......and that's really good enough for me, which is why I've been at both places for 20 years. I don't need no Talking Heads to inform me. I think the best and the brightest are right here.
Here ya go
WTF!.......too funny Olds...Familiar with this dude, i hope i'm not THAT old!
Good one, lol.
ChiefsCrown said...Between Helium and S & S who in your opinion is the better colt? After watching the TB Derby Helium came from about 12 lengths off the lead and was wide.
I"m not sure if it was you who said earlier you never heard of Helium...so I was happy to see you have watched his Tampa Bay derby, he was runnning way behind, then went 5 wide and literally gobbling up ground.
Maybe I'm easily impressed. LOL
I can't tell you if S&S is a better horse. I just look at the chart for his race. He was losing ground. It's right there in the chart. Greatest Honour who ran behind him was gaining ground. So the "who did he beat" philosophy has never been part of my handicapping because it doesn't make sense to me. Of course the fact that he ran 2nd to Known Agenda may impress some people. One could even argue that a horse NOT changing leads and still coming in 2nd is quite a feat. I like Known Agenda. I just don't think he's going to get that kind of setup being a P4 running style in the KY Derby. :)
For myself, when capping for a race that is going to be LONGER than the one they just ran like that, that would be a no-no. Now if S&S changes leads properly let's see what he can do I guess? I am prepared to be impressed. I kinda/sorta like him, he ran a good race. At 9F.
You also have to like Into Mischief for the Derby.
It would be great if someone else could jump in here because I obviously have somewhat of a negative bias toward this horse. Admitedly. Not changing leads is like the kiss of death for me in the Derby.
The way I view the field is that almost any of them can finish 3rd & all of them can finish 4th, given the ultra-chaotic, trippy nature of the KD.
There is a lot of luck involved, not only racing luck but also, for lack of a better term, a rather intangible confluence inside the mind of the handicapper that synthesizes to the correct degree what stands as reasonable conclusions & intuitive conclusions. A too dry approach doesn't have enough imagination stirred in & a purely intuitive approach doesn't have enough concretized information stirred in.
Sometimes the first flash one gets about a horse's chances needs to be held onto & other times that flash needs to be let go of.
The process is a very interesting subject, IMO.
I think both Helium & Soupy could land 3rd or 4th, just like almost the entire field. :)
I agree wholeheartedly, Steve.....the whole field could definitely finish 4th, not sure about 3rd, but most of them anyway. 1st and 2nd is a whole other story :)
EQ, Highly Motivated, and Concert Tour are the ones I believe have the best chance to finish 1st and 2nd, pending works. As I have a very generous futures ticket on Hidden Stash, I am giving him a longshot chance, fully aware of my bias.
Rombauer now out, leaving O Besos just one more defection away, giving Winter more hope....
Known Agenda may be good enough to crack top 2, needs perfect circumstances to unfold....
Yes it's a real conundrum this year. Maybe just a "paper bet" for me.
I will disagree with you on concert tour though, he has pretty much proved he is not a "real" 10F horse IMHO and didn't run like one. Even in the oaklawn races, he sure didn't beat G1 level horses. That was a swoop-in-and-get-the-money move.
At the very least, we know that EQ is a *consistent* horse. You can count on him to do something right.
Well, your friend BB apparently agrees with you :)
CT is now pointed toward the Preakness.....leaving a coveted spot for O Besos!
Prince I just have this strange feeling that CT won't make the Preakness. Can't put my finger on it but something not right with that horse.......I think he may have breathing problems and/or in addition to not being able to pass horses going 9F. Something isn't adding up here.
I'm usually about as far afield from conspiracy theories as you can get.........but when it comes to Baffert.......