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Kentucky Derby 2021 DogsUp Diary   Triple Crown - HRN Horse-Races.Net

Started 2/28/21 by DogsUp; 82442 views.
Msg 1621.25 deleted
SameSteve G

From: SameSteve G


I'll Have Another


You do nice work dogs.  (wink)

Msg 1621.27 deleted
SameSteve G

From: SameSteve G


You're multi-talented, dogs.  :)

Msg 1621.29 deleted
SameSteve G

From: SameSteve G


Zildjians?  They sound sweet.

Nothing like good cymbals, eh dogs.

Msg 1621.31 deleted
In reply toRe: msg 30



Growing up I was a "whys" guy of epic proportions. My parents and teachers often pulled their hair out. I have this need to understand why certain things occur. Along those lines, I'm trying to understand why frontrunners have been doing particularly well in the 10f Kentucky Derby in recent years. Starting with California Chrome in 2014, no horse that crossed the line first in the Derby, was worse than 3rd at any point in the race. Before that, you have to go back to Smarty Jones in 2004.

Is it simply the Baffert effect, as most have come from his barn? Is it the breeding industry which has been incentivized by all that money for horses that can win the shorter races? Could it possibly something inadvertent that resulted from the changes in training methods? Horses are starting later and later, running fewer and fewer times. Closers do most of their running in the latter part of the race, so could the lighter racing affect the development of their foundation, relative to their frontrunning opponents that do a bit more heavy lifting throughout the course of a race, causing closers to have a diminished kick late? Remember when it became a thing that frontrunners began stealing Belmonts? Is this just a natural progression of the same trend? 

  • Edited March 18, 2021 11:58 am  by  RAESFAN

From: smartyslew


I think this trend started 50 years ago when Bold Ruler was bred to Something Royal to give us Big Red.

that was the start of a so called speed horse bred to a Classic bred Mare and the Nasrullah,  Princequillo

Nick. Some Deep pocket breeders caught on to that, others discovered Northern Dancer and

Native Dancer Ran/ Mr P for Dirt in North America, breeders many without deep pockets with Lasix breeding speed on speed. The rest of the world Europe and Japan and others Used Northern  Dancer
To breed for Turf with great female nicks compatible to ND female tff 2d thru Almamoud in Europe family 5h tff like sadlers wells, and in Japan to Sunday Silence  bred to Nor Dancer bmsires. Imo like Smarty Jones with the 13c and 1x, seattle slew 13c ,1x passed on to Api and other famlies like 23b,4m, 8c, 2s,
A4,8f spread in a 5 generation pedigree. Many of these families have BPT tff conduits that carry their speed over a distance of ground and have a balanced pedigree and the styles front runners and stalkers
seem to dominate like this year my top 5 fall in this group with one closer in the 5.At this point anyone can jump up in March or April and of course this is imo and I think it supports what Raes is saying in a different form.




I agree that pedigree is probably the biggest reason, but is there any merit to the theory that the changing trend relative to the preparation of these horses, is exacerbating the “problem”? Will it become a vicious cycle as people breed more and more to winners of these contests?