bob>Hi Corky, To me, justice has more than one part most of the time. When murder is committed, the punishment is "death" so that's as far as that issue goes, per the bible. If one robs someone, the OT says he must pay back the loss plus 25% restitution, so the punishment here is to pay back more than one took, but it could include jail or servitude for a time as well. So, here there is punishment AND restitution. With murder, there can't be restitution, the person killed can't be "restituted," I made up a new word!!
Do you know what the culture of death is Bob. St Pope John Paul II mentioned it quite often. It is a matter of culture killing someone in order to se a solution of a problem. When a gang banger kills someone because that person disrespected him that is part of the culture of death.
bob>The murderer is to be put to death, per the bible.
When the state decides to put the person to death for revenge,
bob>It's not done for revenge, the bible says the punishment for murder is death, vengeance is the Lord's.
whether it being the state or the realitives of the dead person, that is the culture of death.
bob>In ancient times, the family could be punished along with the one who committed the crime, God said "eye for eye, ect" meaning the punishment was to equal the crime, not to be greater than the crime. Punishment is to be "JUST" or "Justice"
Those people who do these things, whether illegally or legally, they find that their revenge is hollow.
bob>We are NOT to seek revenge, vengeance is the Lord's. We are to seek JUSTICE.
Those that do find soluce are those who forgive the killer and ask for the person not to be put to death.
bob>No one can forgive the murderer of the murder, the family of the dead person can't forgive the murderer for taking someone else's life. They can forgive him for the pain the murder caused them, but not for the murder. All sins are against God, the murderer can only be forgiven by God.
The people involved in the drama (the killer and the killed) become meaning for all involved. A matter of evil overcomed by good.
bob>No so. The person is dead, he may kill again, it happens all the time. We see gang members laughing about the murders they commit, there is no remorse, in the gang society murder is a good thing some require a murder be committed before they can join the gang.
The issue about it being in the bible has to be taken with a grain of salt.
bob>I consider the bible as the world of God, the foundation of truth, I know CC do not, this is an example of that.
For instance the bible tells the story of the daughter of Jacob who was raped by a rich man. He fell in love with Jacobs daughter and and he and his parents asked her brothers for forgiveness. The brothers said that in order for them to forgive the man that He and all of their people would have to be circumsized. They agreed and were circumsized. On the 3rd day (when they were their sorest, her brothers attacked the village putting everyone to the sword. I don't think that you would think that this was the proper action but then nothing was said either for against this action. It was a matter of history.
bob>The bible shows all sorts of sin done by those who follow God. We all sin.
Bob>>bob>Oklahoma uses "death" too. I agree the CC needs to be "modernized" by changing it's dogma that are not in the bible. Priest