PAULFROMNYS

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Hosted by PAULFROMNYS|Malachi 3:16-18/Bible talk

Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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Romans chapter 5 fellowship   Bible discussions/belief

Started Sep-3 by PAULFROMNYS; 202 views.
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-3

   Romans 5:10   For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

In reply toRe: msg 1
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-3

   This is a primary discernment of how mature we are in Christ = loving our enemies. Think about this in light of Psalm 51:6  Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts:
and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-4

How do you understand this, "having been" past tense, reconciled to God..."shall be" future tense, saved in His life? What does salvation in His life mean? 

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-4

   Isn't it the potential, and then the potential realized?

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-6

Christ's death accomplished justification, which cleared up all problems between us and God. His death also redeemed us, that is, purchased us back to God, thusly reconciling us to God. All of this is judicial, or legal in nature, and does not affect us. it clears up the problems and takes away the veil between us and God and reconciles us to God. This is where many, if not most Christians are stuck.

Now, having been reconciled, we must receive Him to be born of God. This is why Paul asked the Ephesian believers in Acts 19, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" It is entirely possible to have faith in the Lord's death, to be reconciled to God and yet have never received the Spirit. That is why in Romans 10 Paul says that in order to be saved, we must believe in our heart that Christ was raised from the dead and call upon His name. 

By His death we are reconciled to God, and by His resurrection we are being saved in His life. When we call upon Him, we exercise our spirit to enjoy Him as life and grow in life. This will bring us into the Body in Romans 12.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10:10  For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation.
10:11  For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes on Him shall not be put to shame.”
10:12  For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all and rich to all who call upon Him;
10:13  For “whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-6

   yes, and initially it is: the gift of the Holy Spirit.  That is the person of GOD relating to us in the person of His Son.   So that gift, with all the love, wisdom and power in the giver works to establish the life in the giver as our life.  Is there anything too hard for GOD?

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-9

The older versions of the KJV Bible state;

Act 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 
Act 19:2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. (1906 KJV)

And the more modern versions say;

Act 19:1  And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 
Act 19:2  And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." (ESV)

For the following reason I do NOT agree with the change that was made.

James 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But even though the devils believe, they DO NOT have the Holy Spirit.

To say that the Holy Spirit is received WHEN one believes, would open the doors for even devils to have the Holy Spirit and we KNOW that, THAT is impossible.

Even though believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is something that would be impossible for anyone, except:

John 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We can see that the invitation is done by the Holy Spirit, and the invitation (being drawn to Him) is ONLY to man and NOT to any other created being, because seraphim, cherubim and angels do not need such an invitation because they know that God exists experientially. The invitation (calling) is made to us by God in His grace and mercy, through the intercession of the blood (of the Lord Jesus Christ) which was shed upon the cross, to make it possible for us to experience for ourselves the reality of the presence of God. THEN after (since) experiencing that God DOES exist, IF people love His presence, THEN they have the opportunity to surrender to Him, so that He can take up permanent residence in their hearts.

Without experiencing Him, personally, AND Him opening our hearts to love THAT presence (BOTH of which are done by the Holy Spirit) NO ONE could come to Him.

Additionally, once we have received the invitation (calling) to come to Him, IF we respond in the correct manner, THEN we can be permanently filled (elected) to be His permanent habitation.

2 Pet 1:10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 
2 Pet 1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

There are MANY that are certain of the reality their calling, but there are few who ALSO make certain about their ELECTION.

Mat 20:16  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

2 Peter 1:11 shows (everlasting) that being elect or chosen is a permanent experience, and NOT just an anointing (invitation) which comes and goes.

It is in the distinction between the calling (invitation) and the election (becoming the Wife of the Lamb) that MANY people will be left behind (for Great Tribulation) and NOT become living stones which are builded together to be a temple for the permanent habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 
Eph 2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

And as such they will not become (or be) part of the New Jerusalem.

But the New Jerusalem consists of the chosen/elect of God from all the ages, those who have become His everlasting habitation.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

 

In reply toRe: msg 7
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-10

JS5777 said:

James 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But even though the devils believe, they DO NOT have the Holy Spirit. To say that the Holy Spirit is received WHEN one believes, would open the doors for even devils to have the Holy Spirit and we KNOW that, THAT is impossible.

Just a quick comment here. It is helpful to note that the chief designation of God's people in the New Testament is "believers."

Act4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Acts 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

Demons, (Greek: daimon) are spirits, but they do not have a spirit as an organ to receive God, and therefore can never be vessels of God. Man was created with a spirit and is therefore unique among God's creatures and man alone can receive God and contain God. (Job 32:8)

Demons no doubt agree that God exists. That kind of "belief" must be distinguished from "believing into" (Greek: John 1:12-13) which brings man into an organic union with the living God in spirit. He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Also, calling demons "devils" is a tradition issuing from the KJV translation of the Greek word demon (daimon) as "devils" (Greek: diabolos) The designation "the Devil" belongs to Satan alone, meaning "slanderer."

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Just in the interest of carefully handling and rightly dividing the word of God, it seems good to clarify these points.

1. Satan alone is the Devil.

2. Demons are disembodied spirits, always seeking a body to inhabit.

3. Angels, both good and fallen angels are called "spirits" in the Bible, as in spiritual beings, but have a body, and should therefore be distinguished from demons. 

4. Although both angels and demons are called "spirits" neither of them have a spirit as a God given organ to receive God and contain God. There is a spirit in man. God has formed a spirit in man.

Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-10

Do animals have a "spirit"?

 

Shalom,

JS5777

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-10

JS5777 said:

Do animals have a "spirit"?

Not as an organ to receive, contain, and express God. Only man is made in God's image and according to God's likeness. Many believers think that spirit is simply a generic term meaning "life force" or something.

Of course animals have a life force. They have a mind and can think, they have a will and have feelings. Who has had a dog which at times is very happy or very sad? I would call that a soul. But no, animals cannot receive God, contain God, or be begotten of God. This distinction belongs to man and man alone. The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah. God is light, and our spirit is the lamp. 

Proverbs 20:27  The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah,  Searching all the innermost parts of the inner being.

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