PAULFROMNYS

Bible talk

Hosted by PAULFROMNYS|Malachi 3:16-18/Bible talk

Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

  • 1684
    MEMBERS
  • 49710
    MESSAGES
  • 8
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

The Anointing of the Holy Spirit #23   T. Austin Sparks

Started Jun-18 by PAULFROMNYS; 101 views.
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jun-18

   

Baptism and the Lord's Table


We have baptism. I have often been argued with on this wise, "Well what is the need of the water, of the baptistry? It is a spiritual thing after all; our death with Christ, our burial with Christ is a spiritual thing, water can make no difference to that, and in spirit we enter into it; the water is not necessary." Does the New Testament teach that? The New Testament teaches that that way is the Lord's way, and that that water, while it has no virtue in itself, while in itself it makes no difference, that is, the water does not put us away forever, that instant we disappear under the waters does not mean that we go out of sight forever; nevertheless, it is the means of a testimony, that we, as a part of that old organism, that old creation, have disappeared with it from the eyes of God.

In reply toRe: msg 1
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jun-18

   I am not holding a brief for a mere method, I am simply saying this is a figure, and the Lord has given it to us as a way of testifying to a great spiritual reality; but He asks for that testimony. It is a part of the universality of this work of the Lord Jesus. We have the Lord's Table. None of us believes that the loaf literally is Christ, and that at a given moment Christ actually enters into that piece of bread, and that when we take that bread we literally take Christ. Or that the wine is changed into the blood of Jesus Christ, which we drink; we do not believe that. We might argue, as many do, that we receive Life from Christ spiritually and that it is all unnecessary. Is it? The Word is: "Till He come." The Lord is asking for a representation of a heavenly order, of a heavenly thing. It is not the thing in itself, but it is the spirit that is in the testimony. It is not an ordinance, it is a testimony.

In reply toRe: msg 2
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jun-18

   Now you come to the testimony which has to do with the corporate nature of the anointing, spiritually. In the baptism we have disappeared as a part of the old creation from the sight of God. After that God never looks upon a truly baptised one as a part of the old creation. He does not look at you or me as a bit of the old creation, however much there may be of the old man remaining. In the death of Christ we disappeared as a part of the old creation. In my baptism I took that position. I have come to understand more about it since I was baptised, but on the basis of my amount of intelligence then the Lord accepted the whole and undertook to lead me into it, and therefore it is not necessary to be baptised every time new light is given. In that we passed out of the old creation. In coming up we are typically raised together with Christ as a part of a new creation. But what is the new creation? The new creation organism is not like the old creation organism which was an organism all upset; every joint in that great body was dislocated; every function was operating in the wrong direction, it was a reversed peristalsis, all working the wrong way.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Jun-19

1 Pet 3:20       Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Pet 3:21       The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

The topic in the above passage is that of obedience/disobedience and the "the answer of a good conscience toward God" is obedience.

NOT just only that which the flesh alone (without God) is able to do, because it is an outward appearance ONLY, but it is the ONLY truly acceptable obedience before God, which is the exclusive product of the power of His Life dwelling within us.

 

Rom 8:11        But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

The word "quicken" means to "cause to live" or to "bring to life".

If, in the physical sense, our bodies are alive, then how is it that, that which is already alive can be brought to life?

 

Rom 6:2          God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:7          For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:11        Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:13        Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 8:10        And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Eph 2:1           And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

 

Dead in trespasses and sins even though we were physically alive. THAT death was because of the disobedience which is a naturally inherent part of being in the fallen condition, but NOW we are made alive by the power of the SAME Life that raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead, because if it is dwelling in us, it makes us to be alive unto God (quickens us), and one of the primary manifestations of being alive unto God is obedience.

Obedience is NOT a dirty word in the way that the demonically provided definition of the hyper-grace (false) theology tries to make it to be, true obedience is the manifestation of the quickening power of the Life of God which is the VERY SAME Life that was/is in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and if it dwells in us, it WILL manifest its self in and through us in just the SAME way that it did in Him.

Therefore, disobedience, at the very least, is an expression of our own (fallen) will, ways, pride, vanity, arrogance, interfering with the manifestation of the power of the Life of God in us. THIS is where humility is shown to be an absolute necessity.

 

Eph 2:5           Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Col 2:13          And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 Pet 2:24       Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Rev 1:5           And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

And by the power of THAT Life dwelling in us.

Luke 22:20     Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

1 Cor 10:16    The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 Cor 11:25    After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

1 Cor 11:27    Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Therefore, the New Covenant, is NOT just only the Word (Law) being written in our hearts and minds (as in by exercises of memorization by the abilities of the flesh ONLY, without Him), but it is the transforming power of a New Spirit (Life) that has come into us, and through THAT power we become alive to true obedience to begin to manifest anew the attributes of the image and likeness of God that He created us to be in, in the beginning.

Therefore, it is NOT the physical washing of our bodies that saves us in baptism, just as the Apostle Peter said in 1 Peter 3:21, but the manifestation of the Spirit empowered obedience
...[Message truncated]
View Full Message
  • Edited June 19, 2021 11:00 am  by  JS5777
In reply toRe: msg 4
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jun-19

    Great teaching James.  I put it on my facebook page.

In reply toRe: msg 4
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Jun-27

JS5777 said:

"hyper-grace false theology"

Can you briefly explain what this is? I'm not familiar with this term.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Jun-28

It is a theology that has been developed since approximately the 1950's which has several tenets that it tries to uphold.

1)   Hyper-grace theology tries to interpret the details that the Apostle Paul said about the Law of God in a way that tries to make the Apostle Paul to be exactly disobedient to the commandment that the Lord Jesus gave in Mat 5:17-19, even though he was filled with the Holy Spirit and used by God to write half of the books of the New Testament.

Mat 5:17         Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 

Mat 5:18         For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 

Mat 5:19         Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

2)   It makes people to have a “knee jerk” response to automatically consider EVERY mention of obedience, or even the very concept of obedience to automatically be the false obedience of that which the flesh alone, without God, can sometimes produce an appearance of, and it never even considers the possibility that a true obedience could exist, which is the exclusive product of the power of the Life of God dwelling within us. As such it causes many people to almost consider ANYTHING that even implies obedience to almost be a curse word and an attempt by those that utilize such terms to be attempting to undo their salvation and condemn them to hell.

3)   It causes its adherents to even come to the conclusion that NOTHING that they do can even possibly have an eternal importance and therefore, they can do anything that the lusts of their fallen flesh desires and STILL be saved, even though the Apostle Paul said;

Rom 6:1          What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 

Rom 6:2          God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

One of the results of hyper-grace theology is the existence of ministers openly being participants in activities that the Bible describes as Sodomy, and STILL continuing in the ministry and even trying to use the Bible to justify themselves.

4)   It waters down the Holiness of God so much that even the devil himself could be saved, and some even preach such.

Without knowing it, some ministers who have adopted various aspects of hyper-grace theology, are teaching their people directly to enter in to the Great Apostasy (the Greek word for “divorce”).

It is a prime example of people fulfilling the scripture.

Rom 1:22        Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 

Rom 1:23        And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 

Rom 1:24        Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 

Rom 1:25        Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 

Rom 1:26        For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 

Rom 1:27        And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 

Rom 1:28        And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 

Rom 1:29        Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 

Rom 1:30        Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 

Rom 1:31        Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 

Rom 1:32        Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. 

These are just some of the details that I personally have encountered.

Try opening up YouTube and searching for “hyper grace theology”, you will find MUCH more information about it.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jun-28

   What James shared   :)  emphasis on:  Romans 6:1-2  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

In reply toRe: msg 7
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Jun-28

Thank you James. I'm not sure I have the heart to listen to hours of YouTube on the subject. From your description it sounds like Calvinism or Reformed Theology, the age old problem of how to understand God's sovereignty vs. man's free will. Calvinism vs. Arminianism. I believe that God is sovereign and man has a free will. 

I also believe that once we receive the Spirit, our spirit is regenerated forever. The eternal life enters our spirit, as in John 3:6 and John 3:16. However our soul still needs to be saved and eventually our mortal body will be transfigured. So, we are saved but not fully saved. It matters a great deal how we conduct ourselves in this life. We will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ.

1 Peter 1:8-9 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

TOP