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Hosted by PAULFROMNYS|Malachi 3:16-18/Bible talk

Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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ROMANS 3:30   Topics/belief

Started Aug-15 by PAULFROMNYS; 1225 views.
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-15

   What would you say regarding the "the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."?

JS5777

From: JS5777

Aug-15

First of all we must carefully look at the Bible verse and the usage of the words in context.

Rom 3:30        Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

In the context of the passage, the word "circumcision" is a reference that the Apostle Paul frequently used to refer to the Jews and in the same context the word "uncircumcision" is a reference to Gentiles or ANY uncircumcised person.

As such, and without changing the meaning of the verse, it can be correctly read as follows.

Rom 3:30        Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the Jew by faith, and the Gentile through faith.

But there is a reason why the Apostle Paul chose to use this particular method to make reference to these two people groups, and the reason is to bring attention to "covenant" with God, and also to the common theme of being "justified" in the sight/presence of God.

BOTH groups of people can ONLY come into true covenant with God and be justified in His presence by faith.

However, he is NOT talking about a mental belief, which many people mistakenly consider as being faith. He is talking about a living reality and substantive (Heb 11:1, James 2:14-26) faith that will and DOES produce physical manifestation.

When I was a young believer, I had an opportunity to listen as two brothers were discussing whether divine healing was due to the faith of the person being healed or the faith of the person praying for that person.

Because both of the brothers were older than I was at that time, I didn't interrupt them, and over an hour later they agreed to disagree. Then I spoke up and asked them a question. In the case of a dead person that is raised back to life, is it the faith of the cadaver that raised it back to life, or is it the faith of the human being in fallen flesh, that raised the cadaver back to life?

The conclusion is that it is NEITHER, it is the divine sovereignty of God who had mercy to come down into the scene and to make manifest His supernatural power and to give witness to the same.

In the instance of those that claim to have covenant with God, as also with those who do not even know what being in covenant with God is, it is NOT the faith of either one as fallen (faithless) human beings, but rather it is the divine sovereignty of God who has mercy to come down into the scene and to save such as are ordained for eternal life (Acts 2:47).

True faith is GOD's faith that He imparts to us, thereby making it possible for us to be able to have faith in Him, and He gives a measure of THAT faith to everyone, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

Rom 12:3        For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

What people do with THAT faith is a different matter. If they treasure it, there WILL be a reward. If they cast it off as an unclean thing, there will also be results that follow.

Each one chooses between life and death.

I recommend to anyone and everyone that reads this posting, CHOOSE LIFE.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited August 15, 2022 5:56 pm  by  JS5777
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-16

   Thanks James, much appreciated.  Could you give clarity as to why it is stated as "by" faith to those under the law, and through faith to those coming through the gospel?

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-16

  What would you say regarding this David?

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-16

    Anything Fred?

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-16

JS5777 said:

True faith is GOD's faith that He imparts to us, thereby making it possible for us to be able to have faith in Him, and He gives a measure of THAT faith to everyone, it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8).

This is a good point. Abraham believed because the God of glory repeatedly appeared to him and infused him with the believing ability, faith.

Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before -- he dwelt in Haran,

JS5777

From: JS5777

Aug-16

Rom 3:30        Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by (G1537) faith, and uncircumcision through (G1223) faith.

 

By, G1537, ε?κ, ε?ξ, ek    ex, ek, ex, A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

Through, G1223, δια´, dia, dee-ah', A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.

 

Therefore, since the Lord Jesus Christ is BOTH the origin and ALSO the channel from which and through which true supernatural faith comes, in THIS context they result in being synonymous.

The Jew must come to the revelation that true faith has its origin in the Lord Jesus Christ and that HE IS HaMesiach.

The Gentile must come to the revelation that true faith comes through the channel that the Lord Jesus Christ opened for us (in and through the cross) to have access to the promises, covenants and the commonwealth of God's chosen people.

In BOTH cases, it is the Lord Jesus Christ that "reveals".

Mat 11:27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Luke 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited August 16, 2022 2:32 pm  by  JS5777
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-16

Rom 3:30        Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the Jew by faith, and the Gentile through faith.

I looked up the Greek prepositions translated "by" and "through."

The first is ek, primarily meaning out of, from, of...

The second is dia, Of place implying motion, through a place, and used after verbs of motion, e.g., of going, coming.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written. The just shall live by faith.

This verse has "from", ek, out of faith, and "to" a different preposition, eis, indication motion into a place or thing.

With regard to gospel preaching, of course the preacher must have faith to speak the good news to a sinner. Since faith comes out of hearing the word, the sinner receives faith, out of the faith of the gospel preacher, and is saved through faith, or from the faith of the preacher, to the faith of the sinner who then calls upon the Name of the Lord.

Romans 10:15-17 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Aug-16

Thank you Fred.

God manifests Himself to everyone in some way.

Sadly, not everyone has the spiritual eyes to see and understand the manifestation.

It is for that reason that some cast it (the manifesttion) off as an unclean thing, simply because they cannot wrap their carnal and supposedly scientific understanding around it.

The "supernatural" is when something happens in the natural, for which there is no obvious "natural" explanation.

Because of the pride and arrogance of their supposedly exalted intelligence and understanding, they find it impossible that the possibility could exist for things to happen for which they do not have a convenient explanation.

In particular if the explanation is, that it proceeded from a power and intelligence that is higher than their exalted (but nonexistent) intelligence and understanding (Psa 14:1, 53:1).

There is a VERY simple reason why God ALWAYS has the last laugh, and has them in derision, it is because He is eternal and they are not. In order for them to be eternal, they would have to be in Him, and therefore not an unbeliever.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-16

It is good to hear from you James. In your understanding, does "supernatural" and "spiritual" mean the same thing? For example in these verses:

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Would you call "spiritual things" "supernatural things" which the natural man does not receive?

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