PAULFROMNYS

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Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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Romans 6   New Testament

Started Sep-20 by PAULFROMNYS; 187 views.
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-20

   We're doing Romans 6 here locally this Friday, any input appreciated.

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-20

Romans 7 is an explanation of Romans 6:14. "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

How is it that we are not under law? 

Because the husband in Romans 7:2 is the old man in Romans 6:6. The person who was under law is dead, now we are free to be joined to another, to Christ, and bear fruit to God.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

"Married to another" is to be joined to Christ in our spirit. This organic union is what empowers us to walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-21

The Law that is being spoken about in the following verses is NOT the Law of God, which describe how His character behaves and also contains promises.

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15  What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The law that we are no longer under is the law of sin and death, which is NOT the same as the Law of God.

The ENTIRE context of the chapter specifically brings out this point.

The Law of God has always existed and is eternal because God does NOT change (Mal 3:6), AND neither does His character or behavior change.

But the law of sin and death ONLY came to be applied to man because of the fall in sin.

The Cross and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit has made us free from the bondage of the law of sin and death, so that by the power of the Spirit, every description and behavior contained in the Law of God can be made manifest in and through us.

It is for this very reason that the Apostle Paul stated Rom 6:15.

The modern theological deception of hyper-grace, tries to cause people to cast off the descriptions of the behavior of God (together with the promises), by trying to deceive the people into believing that the Law of God and the law of sin and death are the same. they are NOT the same. The Law of God is eternal and the law of sin and death is even now being done away by Christ dwelling in us.

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The weakness of the Law of God is because of the fallen condition of the flesh as long as it is under the bondage of the fallen condition (the law of sin and death), but the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the bondage of the fallen condition and provides us with everything that we need to fulfill the Law of God (descriptions of how His character behaves), and to become His testimony in the earth that He indeed DOES have the power to restore us anew to His image and likeness as it was in the beginning.

It is the business of the adversary (ha satan) to try to deceive us into casting off the Law of God (including the promises) by trying to equate the law of sin and death with the Law of God.

THAT is the entire context of Romans chapter six, and is specifically brought out in verse 15.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited September 21, 2022 12:35 pm  by  JS5777
In reply toRe: msg 3
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-21

JS5777 said:

The Law that is being spoken about in the following verses is NOT the Law of God

Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Is this not the law of God?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Is this not the law of God?

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Is this not the law of God?

Romans 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

No, Paul seems to be specifically and particularly talking about the law of God.

The part of me that was under the law of God is the old man in Romans 6:6. Because I have been "cut off" from this draconian husband, I am free to be joined to another, Christ. Like Abigail who married David. Her old nasty husband Nabal was dead, and she was free to be joined to the king. Now we have another law within us, the law of the Spirit of life.

To know this in an experiental way, we must know our spirit where the Spirit is. Chapter 8 is all about walking according to the Spirit who is with our spirit.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The Spirit with our spirit is the foundation of the Christian life. 

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-21

Which part of the Law of God did Christ NOT fulfill?

If the Spirit of His Divine Life dwells within us, will it behave ANY different in us than it behaved in Him?

God is NOT hypocritical to behave Himself differently in Christ than how He behaves Himself in us.

What we are talking about is the manner in which the Law of the Spirit is made manifest in and through us.

As I have said before.

To the Jew it will appear to be too Gentile, because it will not fulfill any extra-Biblical (rabbinical, or even theological) tradition.

But to the Gentile it will appear to be too Jewish, because it will fulfill, in us, every Biblical description about the behavior of God.

But it is NEITHER Jewish nor Gentile, it is God manifesting Himself, in and through redeemed flesh that is being conformed to the image and likeness of the Word of God, in the new creation of the one new man, in Christ.

In salvation and redemption, we have been set free from the bondage of the fallen condition, into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God, to take up anew the manifestation in the earth of the image and likeness of God, without any contamination of the man of sin.

Or, WHICH of the promises of God that are contained in the Law of God are you willing to completely cast off as a filthy rag?

Sadly, THAT is the results of casting off ALL of the Law of God. It ALSO results in casting off ALL of the promises that are contained in the Law of God.

To cast off ALL of the Law of God, results in us being entirely naked, instead of being clothed upon with Christ and the wedding garments of the Righteousness of He who IS The Word made flesh.

The Rev 19:8 righteousness of the saints in not her own righteousness, WITHOUT Him. It is His righteousness with which He clothes Her, preparing Her to meet Him in the air.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited September 21, 2022 2:48 pm  by  JS5777
In reply toRe: msg 3
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-22

    Thanks James, excellent.  How about the reality of being found in the law of GOD as opposed to the law of sin and death?  It seems we are newborn into an entirely different nature, a nature given to GOD.  The primary opposition to this are appeals to the old nature which is invariably caught up in self, a nature satan's kingdom can insinuate itself into. Only believe takes its proper place in the born again child of GOD finding himself in the midst of such dynamics.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-22

   I think the difference can be found in GOD dealing with a nature consistently responding through the perspective of self.  It may conform in many ways, but the primary reality is self.  Like a child who obeys because it wants to avoid consequences.  This child will benefit little if at all from the things his parents wish for him.  Then somehow((through the grace of GOD)) this child's focus is removed from self to a love and trust for his parents((Christ in us)). Now, and only now can the desires of the parents be instilled in and realized by the child.   

   Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-22

PAULFROMNYS said:

How about the reality of being found in the law of GOD as opposed to the law of sin and death?

Would'nt it be better to say "the reality of being found in Christ" vs "being found under the law of God."

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Paul's desire was to be found in Christ, not having a righteousness from his own effort, being under the law of God,  rather, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, the faith of Christ. (not our work).

This is such a great subject I think I will start a new thread.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-22

   Whew, this is indeed a great topic.  How does a child find the reality of its parents desire for him?  What are the dynamics?  What part does the child play? the parents? What is the heart of the child established in the reality of what his father desired for him?  Start the thread dear brother, I believe the praise of our GOD and His Christ will grow therein.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-22

1 Cor 9:20      And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1 Cor 9:21      To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Gal 3:13          Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

The “curse of the law” is ONLY to the disobedient.

Gal 3:13 DOES NOT say that we are redeemed from the ENTIRETY of the Law of God (including the promises), just ONLY the “curse” which comes upon the disobedient. Therefore, we are redeemed to become obedient and under the Law to Christ (The Obedient), thereby escaping the “curse” and inheriting the promises.

Why? Because the Law of God is PART OF the Word of God, which was made flesh and which is STILL being made flesh, and the Wife of the Lamb is in the marriage covenant with HIM, ALL of Him, with absolutely NONE of the “curse”, because of Her coming to perfect conformity and obedience to HIM.

 

Gal 3:17          And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 6:2            Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

 

We are NOT entirely without any form of governance (entirely lawless), there IS a Law that we are STILL under, the Law of Christ, which fulfills every description about the behavior of the character of God, but without the “curse” and while still inheriting every one of the promises, because of His obedience in us.

It can ONLY exist through Him inhabiting us and conforming us to Him (us taking the wedding vows).

It happens on BOTH the individual AND the corporate levels of perspective, the Adoption of Sons AND the marriage vows of the Wife of the Lamb.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited September 22, 2022 2:13 pm  by  JS5777
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