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Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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we need to obey the Law.   General Discussion

Started Aug-16 by PAULFROMNYS; 1051 views.
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-24

JS5777 said:

We know that ALL of the Law of God was fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ, EVERY description of the character of God was made manifest in Him and through Him, and without Him we can do NOTHING.

Amen. Much as in Romans 7, Paul's testimony in Galatians is that when he tried to keep the law, the law killed him. 

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

So now, it is not Christ helping Paul to keep the commandments, Paul is crucified, and Christ is living in him. Paul has learned the secret, do not try and keep the law, but enjoy God as grace in his spirit and Christ lives in him.

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-24

JS5777 said:

In other words, through the power of the Life of God that was in the blood of God that purchased the church,

I say AMEN to this utterance. However, in light of our other discussions going on this forum, I understand it this way.

"the blood of God that purchased the church" I understand to be a reference to God sending His only-begotten Son into the world to be the propitiation for our sins and to redeem us to Himself through His precious blood.

"the power of the Life of God" I understand to be the resurrected Jesus, the Firstborn from the dead, who, as the Spirit is now in our spirit to be our life and life supply.

Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-24

   Yes, the blood keeps us in the workings of GOD until we are conformed to the likeness of His Son.  If we went in perfect obedience, we would not need the blood, but none comes even close to that, we are all totally defeated except for the blood, even the foremost among us miss by a long shot.  The one and only true response is offered as a gift through a promise.

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-24

JS5777 said:

The Wife of the Lamb finds the fullness of Her rest (Shabbat) in HIM, Her Ishi, and in THAT rest, She escapes from ALL of the afflictions of the fallen condition and ALL of the results of the fall in sin (Her Shalom).

Between the wife in chapter 19,

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

and the wife in chapter 21,

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.

there is chapter 20, with a 1000 year period of some reigning with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So there is the wife in chapter 19 that is also an army (19:14), then 1000 years of reigning with Christ, then the wife which is the New Jerusalem. How do you understand this?

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-25

   Those beheaded and finding the headship of Christ thereby are the bride formed from Adam till those raptured before the great tribulation In my current understanding.  The rest of creation follows the natural path through death, hell, and those alive at the return((sea?? but dead and after that judgment??)) Revelation 20:13 unto the final judgment of GOD into life or death. 

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Aug-26

PAULFROMNYS said:

I'm so glad I posted these questions, I'm finding much help in hearing our Lord. 

Questions are good. We should all be full of questions and not assume that we know anything. Jesus asked many questions both of His disciples, and of the Pharisees (the religious experts).

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

22:42-45 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him, Lord, how is he his son?

According to Matthew 16, Peter answered the question because he has received revelation from the Father. According to Matthew 22, the religious experts could only half answer the question. Jesus is the son of David according to the flesh (Romans 1:4). How is it then that David, in spirit , called Him Lord? They could not answer. We should not assume that we can answer this question of all questions. We need revelation.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Aug-26

    Fred said:   Questions are good. We should all be full of questions and not assume that we know anything. Jesus asked many questions both of His disciples, and of the Pharisees (the religious experts).

    Paul replied:  Amen Fred, we all no in part, and it can be a real red flag when we feel not the need of one another pertaining to understanding, or any other aspect of our life going from the earthly to the heavenly.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-10

The marriage vows that are referred to in Rev 19:7-9 happen on this side of the Great Tribulation, it is the reception, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, that happens in heaven.

While the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is happening in heaven, at the SAME time the supper of the great God (the Great Tribulation) is happening in the earth (Rev 19:17-21).

THEN, the faithful come back to the earth to reign with the Lord for the thousand years.

Then the enemy is loosed for a short time to deceive the nations and to gather the nations together against the camp of the saints (Rev 20:3, 7-10), but all of them are eventually consumed by fire (v. 9).

Then there are New Heavens and New Earth (Rev 21:1) and upon the New Heavens and the New Earth, the New Jerusalem, comes down from God out of Heaven (v. 2).

In the time period, between the burning of the nations and the New Jerusalem coming down, the Great White Throne Judgement happens, because in the New Heavens and the New Earth, there will be no more death or weeping and mourning.

All death, weeping and mourning must cease, and there be a New Heavens and New Earth in order for it to be an appropriate place for the New Jerusalem to descend upon.

The "New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21:2 is different from the "camp of the saints: and the "beloved city" in Rev 20:9, because in-between the burning of the nations in Rev 20:9 and the New Heavens and the New Earth in Rev 21:1, the Great White Throne Judgement happens in Rev 20:11.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited September 10, 2022 3:28 pm  by  JS5777
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-11

JS5777 said:

The "New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21:2 is different from the "camp of the saints: and the "beloved city" in Rev 20:9,

It is rare to find anyone who does not regard the New Jerusalem as physical structure, even though Revelation 1:1 says that the revelation is "made known by signs." The golden lampstands are obviously not literal or physical, the four horses are obviously not literal or physical, the woman clothed with the sun is obviously not literal, but the New Jerusalem is. If I point out, "no, it is a sign, it signifies the bride of the Lamb, this is the church isn its consummated form, they cannot except it.

Why? Because their head os already full of myths about going to heaven. Try and find a book on the New Jerusalem, the greatest and consummate sign in the Holy Scriptures. I doubt you can find one. What you will find are books about people who have died and "gone to heaven" full of fanciful details which are nowhere in the Bible. This is the state of the Christian religion.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-11

A very basic connection.

A "city" is ONLY a collection of buildings if it does not have citizens to inhabit it.

The scriptures say that the New Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven.

Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

But the New Jerusalem is NOT just only a collection of buildings, just as the Church is NOT just the building where people congregate.

The "church in the wilderness" was the "church" (called out ones) from the moment that they left Egypt, even BEFORE the Tabernacle was made.

Acts 7:38  This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

It is because the pillar of fire led them from the very beginning.

Exo 13:18  But God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.

Exo 13:21  And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
Exo 13:22  He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

So it is with every true church, it is a people that are being led by the Holy Spirit, the pillar of fire, to go in, to inherit everything that God has promised.

The Church is the congregation of the PEOPLE, that are being led by the Holy Spirit and that are inheriting the promises of God.

The following is a list of the 234 verses in Exodus thru Deuteronomy where the words “congregation” or “assembly” or both are found.

Exo 12:3; 6; 19; 47; 16:1; 2; 3; 9; 10; 22; 17:1; 27:21; 28:43; 29:4; 10; 11; 30; 32; 42; 44; 30:16; 18; 20; 26; 36; 31:7; 33:7; 34:31; 35:1; 4; 20; 21; 38:8; 25; 30; 39:32; 40; 40:2; 6; 7; 12; 22; 24; 26; 29; 30; 32; 34; 35; Lev 1:1; 3; 5; 3:2; 8; 13; 4:4; 5; 7; 13; 14; 15; 16; 18; 21; 6:16; 26; 30; 8:3; 4; 5; 31; 33; 35; 9:5; 23; 10:7; 9; 17; 12:6; 14:11; 23; 15:14; 29; 16:5; 7; 16; 17; 20; 23; 33; 17:4; 5; 6; 9; 19:2; 21; 23:36; 24:3; 14; 16; Num 1:1; 2; 16; 18; 53; 2:2; 17; 3:7; 8; 25; 38; 4:3; 4; 15; 23; 25; 28; 30; 31; 33; 34; 35; 37; 39; 41; 43; 47; 6:10; 13; 18; 7:5; 89; 8:9; 15; 19; 20; 22; 24; 26; 10:2; 3; 7; 11:16; 12:4; 13:26; 14:1; 2; 5; 10; 27; 35; 36; 15:15; 24; 25; 26; 33; 35; 36; 16:2; 3; 9; 18; 19; 21; 22; 24; 26; 33; 41; 42; 43; 45; 46; 47; 50; 17:4; 18:4; 6; 21; 22; 23; 31; 19:4; 9; 20; 20:1; 2; 4; 6; 8; 10; 11; 12; 22; 27; 29; 25:6; 7; 26:2; 9; 27:2; 14; 16; 17; 19; 20; 21; 22; 29:35; 31:12; 13; 16; 26; 27; 43; 54; 32:2; 4; 35:12; 24; 25; Deu 5:22; 9:10; 10:4; 16:8; 18:16; 23:1; 2; 3; 8; 31:14; 30; 33:4

The New Jerusalem (if you are ONLY looking at buildings) is NOT the Bride or Wife of the Lamb, it currently exists in heaven and WILL come down upon the New Heavens and the New Earth, because the earth in its current, fallen condition is not worthy of it, AND it has citizens that inhabit it.

Rev 21:9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11  Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15  And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17  And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18  And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19  And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20  The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21  And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25  And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26  And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

It is FAR more than just buildings, it is the congregation of the Saints of the Most High, and it comes d
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  • Edited September 11, 2022 8:46 pm  by  JS5777
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